Matthew Abeler Helps ‘Pass the Salt’ With His Viral YouTube Video

Matthew Abeler (Photos courtesy of Matthew Abeler)

By Rachel Tyner

We’ve all been there. Seemingly enjoying a nice conversation with a friend when you suddenly realize you’ve been talking to yourself for past 10 minutes while your friend has been texting, Instagram-ing, or Tinder-ing.

Matthew Abeler, a student at the University of Northwestern of St. Paul with a keen sense for observation, noticed this as well. He began thinking about how technology affects our relationships and the types of messages we send to our friends and families when we choose to use our phones instead of engaging in conversation. So, “Pass the Salt” was created.

After seeing the “Pass the Salt” video in my newsfeed I knew I wanted to get in contact with its creator. After some quick Google action, I came across a “Pass the Salt” Facebook page. I sent a quick message , not knowing who would be on the other end, or if someone would even respond. Luckily, Matthew came back with some insightful answers.

I look forward to seeing what he is going to come up next. Be sure to check out his video, his YouTube channel, and put down the phones and pass the salt!

Rachel Tyner: Give us a little bit of your own background. Who you are, what first got you interested in film, what factors contributed to turning an initial interest into a passion, etc.?

Matthew Abeler: I was born left-handed and right-brained. I grew up in rural Upsala, MN where my parents run a Christian Bible Camp (Camp Lebanon). I spent a lot of time outdoors playing sports, fishing, hiking, and climbing trees—doing anything to appease my craving for adventure. My imagination ran wild and drove my parents and older siblings crazy, but they encouraged it even further by reading an endless amount of stories to me before bed. Most of these were from the Bible, and I became fascinated with larger than life storytelling.

I was initially interested in drawing, music, and writing long before film. I enjoyed trying to copy reality in pencil sketches, particularly the features and emotion in faces. I rebelled in my piano lessons by ignoring the songs I was supposed to practice and instead writing my own. To this day I still regret not being able to sight-read well because of this “distraction.”

I never landed on one particular skill, which is what led me to film. Film is an everything art. I realized everything I created in drawing, music, and writing could belong together in one form. I began by making home videos with my older brother, and they eventually turned into larger collaborative efforts like “Pass the Salt.”

RT: Was this video inspired by a particular dinner? What sparked you to comment on this aspect of social interactions?

MA: Surprisingly, “Pass The Salt” wasn’t sparked by a traditional family dinner. It was my interactions with college students at the University of Northwestern of St. Paul (where I currently attend) during lunch and dinner that inspired it. I noticed how “normal” it was for an entire group to have their phones out at the tables, sometimes oblivious to each other. I wondered how a parent would deal with the problem. That initial quandary led to a personal commitment not to use my phone at mealtimes even in the collegiate setting. Later, I gave a speech on the subject of “Media Obesity: Technology and Relationships” for one of my classes, and decided a comedic video could engage interest in the topic. My speech professor denied the request to use an original video, but I enjoyed the script so much I decided to make the film anyway. 

RT: You describe "Pass the Salt" as a "video short about technology and relationships.” I find that description really interesting, as opposed to a "video short about texting at the table.” Is this a topic that has been discussed often in class, with friends, family etc.? How do you think technology has affected our relationships? 

MA: When I was researching the topic for my speech, I discovered that there were greater problems swimming beneath the surface of little things like “texting at the table.” The problem is more about value than it is about cellphones. If I am having a deep conversation with my parents, and I whip out my phone I am implicitly telling them “I value the conversations with my friends on the phone more than the conversation I’m having with you.” This can cut deep, even if its status quo behavior.

No matter what I’m doing, if something causes me to turn a deaf ear to my close friends, I hurt not only them, but also my ability to maintain long lasting, tight-knit relationships.

Behind the scenes of "Pass the Salt."

RT: I first saw this video on Facebook when my uncle posted it. The next day, I was telling my boyfriend about it when he exclaimed, "Oh yeah I saw that!  Hilarious." Obviously, with more than two million views, this is reaching a wide demographic. Almost everyone can relate to this, but is it geared toward a particular audience?

MA: I love hearing stories like that. My mom has a friend who hosts exchange students in her home, and one of the woman’s previous students from Sweden discovered the video and shared it with her. The woman was shocked when she recognized my mom in the video.

Most watching the video are of the ages of 18 to 35 and 65+. Although I’d like to credit myself for knowing the audience well before creating the video, I didn't really have a particular demographic in mind other than my speech class. I can, however, explain a possible reason for the wide ranging demographic.

The average human peaks at about 150 relationships in a given community, but because of a desire to be valued by many, we’re often convinced we need more relationships to be content and/or significant.

Not surprisingly, the average number of Facebook friends per person shows that the 18 to 24 age demographic is most guilty of this tendency, and the demographic 65+ is least guilty.

• Age 65+: 102 Friends
• Age 35 to 54: 250 Friends
• Age 25 to 43: 360 Friends
• Age 18 to 24: 649 Friends

Because the problem is not mere technology or media, but our confusion with more relationships meaning better relationships, the age categories on separate ends of the totem pole relate to the video the best, even though it doesn’t explicitly deal with this subject.

RT: This video was uploaded a year ago. When did you first start to see a dramatic increase in shares and views? Do you think it correlates to anything?

MA: Five weeks ago it jumped from 3,000 views to 30,000 in a single day. This seems to have occurred as a result of a Women’s Retreat guest at Camp Lebanon who asked my mom (who also starred in the short film) if she could use the film in an online course she was teaching. From there it snowballed into more than 2,000,000 views and Ashton Kutcher even shared it on his Facebook page.

RT: Where did that typewriter come from and what is "Dad" (is that really your dad?) typing during the video?

MA: I borrowed it from a friend our school’s theater department whose house is full of vintage “stuff.” My dad (yes, he is my real father) was having trouble operating the typewriter because the keys were sticking. Most of the typing was a nonsensical ink mess, but I later found fragments of a poem about pumpkins.

RT: While you do not make an appearance in “Pass the Salt,” you have in some of your other videos. Do you have a preference—behind the scenes or in front of the camera?

MA: I enjoy both. The exercise of acting for camera helps me direct the performances of actors. However, I rarely act in a production I am directing. Collaboration is hands down my favorite aspect of film production. Immense joy comes from inviting the talents of others onto a production and I’m finally coming to terms with the fact I can’t do everything myself.

RT: In 10 years, what will the title on your business card read?

MA: “Children’s Storyteller Specialist”

RT: Name a random fact about yourself (other than a love for mom's lemon meringue pie).

MA: I have only one dimple, but I show it a lot.

The Writer's Bone Interviews Archive

Author Judy Chicurel On How Everything Should Start With Your Writing

Judy Chicurel (photo credit: Marcia Klugman)

By Daniel Ford

I have a process when browsing in a bookstore. I start with the new releases, best-sellers, and new paperbacks and work my way to all the older paperbacks I’ve been lusting after for years.

At the end of my journey, I tend to gravitate back to authors and titles that caught my eye that I had previously never heard of before. Recently, I became ensorcelled by Judy Chicurel’s short story collection, If I Knew You Were Going to Be This Beautiful, I Never Would Have Let You Go. Beautiful cover, intriguing coming-of-age tale set in Long Island, and a New York City writer’s debut? Yup, that’s about all I need.

I couldn’t be happier that Chicurel’s collection now occupies a space on my bookcase, and that she took some time from her schedule to talk to me about her writing process, the challenges of the short story genre, and her future literary plans.

Cover photo courtesy of Judy Chicurel

Daniel Ford: When did you decide you wanted to be a writer?

Judy Chicurel: There wasn’t a defining moment; I just loved to write as far back as I can remember. As a kid I was always scribbling something and I loved writing assignments in school. I got my first rejection letter when I was 11 years old.

DF: Who were some of your early influences?

JC: John Steinbeck; Nelson Algren, Toni Morrison; Lillian Hellman, Dorothy Parker, Tennessee Williams.

DF: What is your writing process like? Do you listen to music? Outline?

JC: I can’t listen to music while I write, it’s too distracting. I end up either daydreaming or dancing or both. I was never much of an outliner, though I’m getting more into it now while working on multiple projects. I like to write outside the house; I write almost everything long hand first and then edit on computer. I like to write in cafés or on the subway. For years, the only writing time I had was while commuting to various jobs and I’ve grown somewhat used to it.

DF: We’re huge fans of the short story genre here at Writer’s Bone. What is it about the format that appeals to you?

JC: I’ve been asked this question a couple of times since writing If I Knew… I think short stories are really satisfying when you want to shift around a bit, hear multiple voices, gain introduction to different characters and situations for short intervals of time. I think it’s an interesting challenge to make the characters as compelling as possible within the confines of the format.  I’ve always loved stories, listening to them, telling them, but I love novels, too, and plays. Every format offers something unique.

DF: How long did it take you to complete If I Knew You Were Going to Be This Beautiful, I Never Would Have Let You Go?

JC: About a year and a half, give or take.

DF: Did the ideas for each story originate differently when you were planning out the collection, or did you find ways to connect them during the writing process?

JC: This wasn’t a planned collection; the connection definitely came during the writing and afterwards. I was writing with a specific setting in mind but I hadn’t figured out how it would all come together. The last chapter of If I Knew… was one of the first ones I wrote, and I had no idea what was going to come before or after. I had been sending individual stories to my agent and was actually working on a novel at this time as well. One day she emailed me, “I think this is your book,” meaning If I Knew…, which was definitely coming out ahead of the novel in terms of output.

DF: How much of yourself—and the people you have daily interactions with—did you put into your main characters? How do you develop your characters in general?

JC:  I know someone who teaches memoir writing who says she’s convinced that whether writers are writing fiction or non-fiction, they always bring something of themselves to the writing. I tend to agree with her, up to a point, though I think I brought more emotional realities to these characters than things that actually transpired in most cases. That’s what’s great about writing fiction. I’m very character-driven. I don’t want to sound unnecessarily mystical but sometimes a character just comes to you, just starts living inside your head for whatever reason, and then you have to write it out. Sometimes characters come out of the blue and surprise you; Mitch and Luke, the Vietnam vets in If I Knew… were surprises, as were some of the other folks.

DF: I ask every New York City-based author we interview this question because I think about it a lot when I write about the city. Do you have to work at avoiding clichés when depicting the city and the surrounding area, or do you feel comfortable in your knowledge of it that you don’t really think about it?

JC: If I Knew… really isn’t about the city, except for a few short scenes in several of the stories.  I don’t think these incorporated clichés, but we’re also talking about a time period of more than 40 years ago, when New York was a very different city than it is now. But I am pretty comfortable writing about the city, having lived in the New York area most of my life.

DF: You’ve also written plays that were performed in New York City. What are some of the differences—and difficulties—that you came across when writing outside the short story genre?  

JC: I believe writing across mediums has its advantages and isn’t all that difficult. You always start with a character or characters, or an idea, and proceed from there.  I think you have to ponder what it is you want to reveal and then determine whether or not you can do it effectively in the more compact space provided by the short story form. I’ve been a journalist and a grant writer, so I’m well-used to the confines of the word count and I’m always thinking of the most compatible medium that will allow my characters to be themselves with as little restriction as possible. I’ve always loved writing dialogue, so the plays were a natural extension of that for me. And there are some narratives that just need more space than a short story will provide—hence the novel, or the novella.  I’m really happy to see the novella making a comeback; I never fully understood why it went out of vogue in the first place.  

DF: Your book has gotten some great reviews from the likes of Booklist and Kirkus Reviews. Now that you have your first collection under your belt, what’s next?

JC: I’m currently working on two novels simultaneously, one about an intergenerational group of women living in a small town and how their lives and circumstances intersect over the course of a year, and one about New York City during the 1980s.

DF: What advice would you give writers just starting out?

JC: Try to seek out situations where you can get your work noticed by people who are willing to help you and where you can build a supportive community. And this advice was given to me by a friend’s father years ago at a track meet when we were in the sixth grade: I was running a 50-yard dash and I came in second, and he told me afterwards, “You know, you would have come in first but you were too busy looking around to see who was ahead of you.” I remembered that years later and I think it applies to many situations where there are competitive elements. Don’t look around at where everyone else is or where you think you should be and neglect the writing in the process. Everything starts with the writing.

DF: Can you please name one random fact about yourself?

JC: I’m a huge walker. I still love walking in New York City. I love landing in a strange city and just hitting the bricks. And I love walking beaches. I’m fortunate to live near several.

To learn more about Judy Chicurel, check out her official website or like her Facebook page.

The Writer's Bone Interviews Archive

T-Shirt Chic: 9 Questions With Fashion Designer Melanie Andujar

Design pictures courtesy of Melanie Andujar

By Sean Tuohy

I’ll be the first to admit this: I know nothing about fashion.

My go-to outfit is a black t-shirt, jeans, and used Chucks, which is why I was surprised when I was drawn to a line of costumed designer t-shirts from Revision Apparel.

Started in New York City by Melanie Andujar, the fashion company features eye-catching designs with a personal touch.

I was lucky enough to chat with Melanie about her designs, her future, and the finer points of fashion.

Sean Tuohy: When did you know you wanted to make fashion your passion? 

Melanie Andujar: Around 8 years old. My parents would leave me at my grandmother’s house where she had a chair full of buttons from her years working at a sewing factory. She taught me how to sew and I would make garments out of her loose ends of fabric in the house or practice on a paper towel. After making all my creations I would have my sister Stephanie Andujar model them in front of the family.

She was eager to wear my creations since she was only 6 year old at the time and was proud of her big sister. She is my biggest fan and I am hers.

ST: Who or what influenced you?

MA: I would say all the 1980s or 1990s movies my sister and I watched that focused on fashion. Movies like the Euro-wardrobe scenes in “National Lampoons European Vacation” (the Chevy Chase version), “Don’t Tell Mom the Babysitter’s Dead,” “Pretty in Pink,” “Mannequin,” “Sabrina,” “Pretty Woman”...the list goes on and on. I would say film and television played a big role in both my life, as well as my sister’s, growing up as 80s babies.

ST: Where did the idea for Revision Apparel come from?

MA: I would have to say my years working as an assistant for Roca Wear. Every time we pitched an idea to sales, they pretty much went with a lot of original designs later on after many "revisions." The word was said so often, I thought it would sound good on a pair of jeans or a brand. Changing fashion, making it as your own.

We'll take 10, please and thank you.

ST: As far as being a designer, what was your goal with Revision Apparel?

MA: My goal is to offer graphics and apparel that are fashion forward, trendy, and inspirational.

ST: What does Urban Chic mean?

MA: Having a mix of both worlds. Being able to cross urban apparel with a touch of chic fashion. For example, pair our graphic tee and leather pencil skirt, throw on some high strapped heels with a gold chain, and you’re urban chic! 

ST: What is your creative process when designing a new shirt?

MA: My most creative ideas are created at night with a pair of head phones good music, tuning out the world. I trend research at the same time to have find out what's in the market. I use Adobe Illustrator, and sometimes Photoshop, to turn my ideas into a t-shirt brand.

ST: What does the future hold for Revision Apparel?

MA: Brand expansion and becoming a household name as a well-established couture line.

ST: What advise do you give to others thinking about following in your footsteps? 

MA: Don't give up and stay motivated. There are many resources out there to become a fashion designer or graphic artist. Stay positive.

ST: Can you tell us one random fact about yourself?

MA: I won an art award in 1993 for a Heal the World art contest run by Michael Jackson.

To learn more about Melanie Andujar, follow her on Twitter @Melanie_Andujar.

The Writer's Bone Interviews Archive

Torturing the High Seas: 9 Questions With Techno-Thriller Author Rick Chesler

Rick Chesler

By Sean Tuohy

Rick Chesler takes his readers on watery, claustrophobic, and Jurassic adventures with each new novel he pens. His books, which feature spies, FBI agents, and techno-thrills all mixed together, never fail to take his fans on a ride as wild as any amusement park ride.

I was able to talk to Chesler between writing his new novel and scuba diving.

Sean Tuohy: When did you know you wanted to become a writer?

Rick Chesler: In my late 20s I started trying my hand at writing original novels. I knew they weren’t very good yet, but I still felt like after having read so many that I might be able to contribute one of my own. I kept working at it over the years, slowly and somewhat sporadically at first, but gradually devoting more and more time to it.

ST: Who were some of your early writing influences?

RC: Clive Cussler, Michael Crichton, Tom Clancy, Ian Fleming.

ST: Where did FBI Special Agent Tara Shores come from?

RC: She’s not based on any particular real-life person. I wanted to write a series of techno-thrillers with an FBI agent protagonist, and I thought female FBI agents were somewhat rare in thrillers at the time, so I wanted a female character. Then I gave her a fear of water and assigned her to ocean-based cases.

ST: If you had to pick an actress to play Tara Shores who would you pick?

RC: Jessica Biel.

ST: You have written several books with partners. What is it like to write a book with a partner?

RC: So far it’s been a lot of fun! It’s also been a great learning experience and period of growth for me. I learn a lot from seeing how other writers do things and what their processes are like. It’s always interesting to see how differently two writers can view the same story!

ST: What is your writing process like?

RC: I like to work with an outline of some kind, although some are more detailed than others. Usually I have the basic germ of an idea and then I’ll write down some notes, and from there take it to outline form. Then I do a first draft, working as quickly as possible to get the book down from the outline. After that, I read the draft through and do a second draft with some revisions and major edits, adding details from research. Then I read that second draft through and do a third draft for line edits and catching anything that still glares at me. After that it goes to the professional editor.

ST: What advice do you give to up-and-coming writers?

RC: You’ll save a lot of time if you outline first. That said, there is something to be said for experimentation and trying out different methods. But for a first-time novelist, I highly suggest outlining the entire story first and then writing according to the outline. You can always make big changes in the second draft if you think they would improve things, but if you never complete a first draft, you’re not even a novelist yet.

ST: What does the future hold for Rick Chesler?

RC: Next up from me, probably at the end of November 2014, will be my second collaboration with David Wood for his Dane and Bones Origins series. This one is called Electra and is about the search for Amelia Earhart’s plane.

December should see the third installment in my Outcast Ops series, entitled African Firestorm, co-written with Craig Reed, Jr. Think Somali pirates.

Due out sometime in early 2015 from Severed Press will be my creature feature thrill-fest, Hotel Megalodon, about a giant prehistoric shark that plagues the opening of an underwater luxury hotel. You can check out any time you like, but you can never breathe!

Then in early spring 2015, hold on tight for the sequel to Jurassic Dead, Jurassic Dead 2, co-written with David Sakmyster, also published by Severed Press.

ST: Can you please give us one random fact about yourself?

RC: I’ve been to seven of the eight main Hawaiian islands.

To learn more about Rick Chesler, check out his official website, like his Facebook page, or follow him on Twitter @RickChesler.

The Writer's Bone Interviews Archive

Loving the Truth: 8 Questions With Author and Podcaster Justin Macumber

Justin Macumber

By Sean Tuohy

Justin Macumber is a writer who is never at rest.  

Between writing his next critically acclaimed story and producing his 7-year-old podcast, “The Dead Robot Society,” Macumber is constantly on the move.

I was lucky enough to chat with Macumber between projects about his writing style, the podcast, and what the future holds for him.

Sean Tuohy: When did you know you wanted to be a writer?

Justin Macumber: It didn't hit me until high school that writing was something I might be good at. I was taking freshman English, and my teacher, Mrs. Rose, complimented my poetry highly. I don't write poems anymore, but those compliments stuck with me, empowering me to take my writing to longer forms.

ST: Who your early writing influences?

JM: Stephen King and Robert Heinlein. King has such an easy, casual style to his writing that greatly appeals to me. I also love that he's an author who doesn't let himself be stuck in one genre niche. Heinlein showed me that science fiction should be about the people, with the science a backdrop and supporting aspect.

ST: How did 'The Dead Robots Society" come to be?

JM: I'd been listening to podcasts since before they were called that, and I loved the idea of independently produced radio type shows sent to people via the Internet. I searched high and low for a topic I thought I could speak to that wasn't already well covered. At the same time, I was beginning to take my writing more seriously. Somehow one hit the other, and thus was born “The Dead Robots' Society” podcast, a show made by a bunch of aspiring writers for other aspiring writers. Now, over seven years later, we're still going strong, and we've dropped the "aspiring" aspect. Writers write, no other qualifier needed.

ST: What is your writing process like?

JM: A total mess. Usually I outline the story before I get started on it, but my latest work is being written completely by the seat of my pants. Why the change? I wish I knew. I just go with it, honestly. This one feels self-propelled. Once I have the first draft finished I go back through it and edit for story problems. After that it goes to beta readers so they can look for any issues I missed or didn't know existed. Once I have their notes back I do a third draft with their ideas in mind. Only then do I do a fourth draft for grammar, punctuation, and spelling problems. No use doing that until you're basically done with it. Then I sent it to my publisher to see if it's something they'll want. If so, great! If not, I either consider another publisher or put it out myself.

ST: Which do you find more difficult to write a short story or novel?

JM: They're really both the same, just one word after another. Short stories are hard because you don't have a lot of room for secondary plots or character moments, but novels can be difficult because you can lost in the world and end up wasting time on chapters or scenes you ultimately don't need. But, if you put a gun to my head, I'd say novels, if only because the length multiplies potential issues.

ST: What does the future hold for Justin Macumber?

JM: Too much! Right now I'm writing a sequel of sorts to my first horror novel Still Water, and after that I'll get back to a prequel to my debut novel Haywire. Once those two are done I'd like to finish my Born Of Fire trilogy that I've been writing for Crescent Moon Press. After that...who knows? I have several novel ideas in mind, all in different genres or combinations of genres.

ST: What advice do you give to other writers?

JM: First, be okay with sucking. All first drafts should suck. Just get the story out of your head and onto a page or monitor. Turn that turd into a diamond in later drafts. Secondly, don't get feedback from family or friends. They love you. You don't want that. You want honesty. Find beta readers who will tell you the truth. Love the truth, even when it hurts. Lastly, be savage in your edits. The phrase "kill your darlings" is a cliché amongst writers for a reason. If a word, a sentence, or even an entire chapter doesn't push forward the story and/or develop characters meaningfully, get rid of it. Don't love your own words so much you can't delete them. Words tell your story, but they also get in the way. Learn to know which words are doing which.

ST: Can you tell us one random fact about yourself?

JM: I'm a massive video game player. I know as a writer I'm supposed to read all the time, but I spend more time with a controller in my hands than I do with a book. And, it's been good for me, in that it's been an endless source of inspiration and ideas. Haywire never would have been written had it not been for “Mass Effect” causing me to ask myself questions about soldiers and their supplies. Still Water was directly inspired by Silent Hill. Video games have become amazing storytelling devices that also happen to look great and play well, and I encourage all writers to try them out.

To learn more about Justin Macumber, visit his official website, subscribe to his podcast, like his Facebook page, or follow him on Twitter @JustinMacumber.

The Writer's Bone Interviews Archive

Finding A Place to Land With Singer-Songwriter Mark Whitaker

Mark Whitaker

By Daniel Ford

Music is constantly being shared back and forth at Writer’s Bone.

The common themes that tie together all of the artists and genres we listen to are honesty and originality. After recently devouring his album “Nowhere to Land,” I can definitely say that it doesn’t get more honest and original than singer/songwriter Mark Whitaker.

Whitaker, armed with a banjo and a voice as smooth as a single malt, tackles heartbreak and the human experience in his beautiful album, which has been on repeat more often than not in my office.

“Forgive me for trying to love you the best I can,” he sings. “Cuz I’ve been flying around for a lifetime with nowhere to land.”

I think I can speak for most of the Writer’s Bone crew when I say, “Amen!”

Whitaker graciously took some time from planning his upcoming tour to answer a few of my questions about his early influences, the inspiration behind “Nowhere to Land,” and the art of songwriting.

Daniel Ford: When did you realize you wanted to be a musician?

Mark Whitaker: It’s hard to say. There’s no distinct moment in my life where I consciously decided to become a musician. I’ve just always been active with music in one form or another since my early childhood. My current situation feels the same. I’m writing songs and seeking opportunities to perform, but I still tend to think of myself as just a guy who likes playing music, rather than a bonafide musician.

DF: Tell me a little about your love for the banjo. When did you start playing it? Did you have posters of Steve Martin on your walls as a kid?

MW: I started playing banjo around 2002. My friend’s mother gave me an old banjo she never played and I immediately fell in love with the sound. It had a sharp, metallic texture, but also a warmth that seemed to scratch an itch I didn’t realize I had. No Steve Martin posters, but I had plenty of his movies on VHS.

DF: Who are some of the artists that influenced you early on?

MW: My earliest music influences were Michael Jackson, The Beatles, George Winston, Danny Elfman, and Brahms. I also had a good amount of Andrew Lloyd Webber drilled into me because my dad would cue up the “Phantom of the Opera” soundtrack for dinner each night, which contained some oddly frenetic pieces for dinner music.

DF: You lived in a couple parts of the country and now make your home in Boston. Why did you make the decision to move here and how has the city influenced your music?

MW: After I graduated from Earlham College in Indiana, some friends and I took a road trip along the East Coast looking for cities to potentially live in. We were looking for a decent-size city with a rich music scene. We settled on Boston, and it has been home ever since. The Boston music scene has had a huge influence on me. No matter what style of music I’m interested in, there seems to be a surplus of musicians to connect with and learn from. I feel both grateful and spoiled.

DF: You’ve played in a variety of groups, but have focused more of your energy on writing and solo work the past couple of years. What are the advantages and disadvantages of both?

MW: The advantage of being a sideman in someone else’s group is that you get to show up and play music without the burden of writing the songs, booking the gigs, coordinating rehearsals, etc. And if you pick projects with music and people you enjoy then there isn’t much of a downside. Leading your own project is more work, but in return you get to realize your own musical ideas.

DF: You sell your album “Nowhere to Land” directly from your website. Why did you decide to distribute it yourself rather than going through more traditional channels?

MW: You can purchase my album through places like iTunes and Amazon, but I decided to make it available from my website as well and to direct people there first. I figure if people are considering downloading it, then why not cut out the middleman. There’s something simple and sensible about buying music directly from the musician, especially now that technology makes selling directly more convenient. But this is all an experiment for me and may not be the most effective way to share my music.

DF: Speaking of “Nowhere to Land,” I had that song on repeat for most of a recent Friday afternoon. What was the inspiration for the song? 

MW: I’m so glad you like it! “Nowhere to Land” is meant to capture the sense in which life is a constantly changing process. We strive for stability in our careers, our relationships, our identities, etc., and it’s perfectly reasonable to do so. But no matter how stable our lives become, time doesn’t stop for us. We’re still always going somewhere. It’s just a strange feature of our circumstance and “Nowhere to Land” is my way of acknowledging it.

DF: If you had to pick one of your songs that defined you forever, which one would you choose and why?

MW: My first instinct was to pick “Nowhere to Land,” but I think I’ll go with “Nightlight.” I like that it’s simple, straightforward, and perhaps more widely relatable. It’s basically just a song about having a tough time and finding consolation in loved ones.

DF: What advice would you give to up-and-coming writers and singer/songwriters?

MW: I think it’s important to find your own relationship to songwriting. Many people have strong opinions on how to write good songs. Some have strict views on third-person narrative versus first-person songs, whether to show versus tell, coherence of lyrics, etc. Some think you should always be writing songs to keep the writing muscles in shape. These are all ideas worth exploring, but your own creative instincts should be the driving force for your own music. If you like writing intermittently, that’s fine. If a certain tense speaks to you more than others, that’s fine too. Be willing to follow your instincts even if it parts ways with conventional wisdom. You never know what interesting things you might discover.

DF: Name one random fact about yourself.

MW: I have an irrational fear of frogs.

To learn more about Mark Whitaker, visit his official website, like his Facebook page, subscribe to his YouTube Channel, or follow him on Twitter @MarkSWhitaker.

The Writer's Bone Interviews Archive

Characters On Tap: 11 Questions With Author Kat Spears

Kat Spears

By Daniel Ford

For the record, this is the kind of official bio that gets you on Writer’s Bone’s holiday card list:

“Kat Spears has worked as a bartender, museum director, housekeeper, park ranger, business manager, and painter (not the artistic kind). She holds an M.A. in anthropology, which has helped to advance her bartending career. She lives in Richmond, Va. with her husband and three freeloading kids. Sway is her debut novel.”

Spears took time from slinging drinks and writing stuff down to talk about her writing process, how she developed her hit debut novel, and why the stories that ended up on the cutting room floor are longer than the finished book.

Daniel Ford: When did you decide you wanted to be a writer?

Kat Spears: Hmm, well, I was always a writer. And before I could write I was a storyteller. A couple of years ago I just decided that if I was going to spend all of my free time writing anyway, and I really enjoyed it, I might as well try to make it my career. I have always worked very hard, have had two jobs since I was 20 years old, and I thought, if I invested this much energy in my writing and trying to get published then there is no reason I couldn’t find moderate success in it. So, I just made the decision to work really hard and, hey, guess what happened?

DF: Who were some of your early influences?

KS: Richard Peck. Absolutely, hands down. I have loved his writing since I was a kid and still love to reread his work. Also, E.L. Konigsberg, who is brilliant, and Katherine Paterson. Jacob Have I Loved is still one of my all-time favorite books. I also started reading Agatha Christie at a fairly young age. She was so deft in her characterizations and settings. I was struck, even at a young age, by her ability to make humor so subtle and a story really come to life in my head.

DF: What is your writing process like? Do you listen to music? Outline?

KS: No outlines. Sometimes I write lists of the major scenes, which I guess sounds like an outline. But it is more like a grocery list or a stream of consciousness. To get started, I write out the major scenes—dialogue and everything—then go back and write the in-between parts to knit the major scenes together. I think that process helps with pacing and story arc, to know the major scenes that move the plot forward and then work to space them appropriately.

And I always listen to music. Always. I have playlists for every character and book and listen to them over and over again while working. Sometimes I replay the same song 10 times in a row because it is setting the right mood.

I write at strange times. At 3:00 a.m., or for 30 minutes on my way home from work. I stop at the coffee shop just to bang out a few pages. I bartend on the weekends, so when it’s slow at the bar, I will sit down and write for a bit. But I’m always writing in my head.

DF: How long did it take you to complete your first novel Sway? Did you know you had something good when you finished?

KS: It took about a year to write and edit Sway. Then I put it away for a few months and came back to it for another round or two of edits before I started querying for an agent. Then I spent another six months working with my editor at St. Martin’s before it was complete.

Honestly, I didn’t know that I had a book that would sell or was marketable. I knew Jesse had a unique voice and I really liked him and the other characters. I also knew that I had read it 200 times and wasn’t tired of reading it and still liked it, so maybe someone else would too.

DF: Take us back to the moment you got the idea for Sway. Did it hit you like a bolt of lightning, or was it an idea that had to germinate over a long period of time?

KS: The idea for Sway came to me very suddenly, probably while I was driving or in the shower. The original idea was to write a book about the friendship between Jesse and Pete—two people who were broken, but broken in different ways. The rest germinated with time. The original version of the book was very different. Jesse’s dad changed quite a bit, as did the situations Jesse created through his manipulations. In fact, the early version is barely recognizable as Sway. I save everything I delete from my books and the document of deleted bits from Sway is actually longer than the finished book. I wrote and threw out more than 300 pages. Isn’t that nuts? It’s a painful thing for a writer to do because 300 pages represent a lot of work, but it is really necessary to “kill the little darlings,” as Oscar Wilde said.

DF: How much of yourself—and the people you have daily interactions with—did you put into your main characters?

KS: There is probably more to my main characters that I take from myself than I could ever comfortably admit to anyone. The characters in my books are sometimes completely made up, and sometimes they are an amalgamation of real people. Digger, for example, is an amalgamation of two people I knew when I was in my late teens and early 20s. His personality is borrowed from one, his background and profession borrowed from another. Carter is based on a real person who is now deceased. The conversation he and Jesse have about Simon & Garfunkel was a real conversation, one that I quoted almost verbatim for Sway. Carter’s inspiration would have been horrified for anyone to know that he liked Simon & Garfunkel since it would have ruined his OG reputation, but whenever he came to my house he always requested that “Cecilia” song.

Then there are the strangers I pass on the street every day. Someone I see on the subway or sitting in a coffee shop. I can easily imagine a back story and personality for them based on just an overheard conversation or their clothing. That’s one of a writer’s favorite hobbies. Those people populate my books as well as minor characters.

DF: Your use of dialogue is often praised in the reviews of your book. How did you develop your style of dialogue?

KS: I have been a bartender at the same bar in Washington, D.C.—Lucky Bar— for many years. Many. Years. Always doing it as a second job. I spend a lot of time talking to all different kinds of people. The people I work with who have passed through over the years, the regulars at the bar, (some of whom I have known longer than some of my closest friends) and, of course, hundreds of random strangers each week. I spend so much time talking to people that I think I just developed a good ear for speech patterns and the different ways that people talk.

Most people, when they are on the listening end of a conversation, are actually just waiting for their own turn to speak, they don’t really listen. I think I’m a good listener because I genuinely want to hear the stories of other people…so I can use them later in my books. Ha ha! Actually, that’s not entirely true, though I do love to borrow material from real life and the stories people tell to bartenders are the best out there. But I’m just endlessly fascinated by people—their motivations, hopes, dreams, fears, stories. And so I spend a lot of time listening. And I always try to craft my dialogue to match real speech patterns while at the same time advancing the plot. No meaningless dialogue in my books.

DF: You’ve had a variety of jobs throughout your life and have a Master’s Degree in anthropology. How have all these different jobs and experiences shaped you as a writer and how did that manifest while you were writing Sway?

KS: I answered this a bit in the previous question, how being a bartender impacts my work. It’s funny, though, that I find it almost impossible to set a book in a bar. I can’t mimic the types of conversations and relationships I have had with my coworkers there over the years. The owners are almost too outrageous as personalities to be believed as fiction. Sway definitely borrows from my training in anthropology as Pete and Jesse have some deep conversations about cultural ideals of beauty and similar things. Really all of my varied jobs and career tracks have just exposed me to a lot of very interesting people who make great character studies.

DF: What’s next for Kat Spears following the success of Sway?

KS: My second book, Flat Back Four, will be released from St. Martin’s in 2015. I should be working on the edits even as I type this. And I quit my day job. Decided to just bartend and write. I feel really good about that decision. How many people get to say they do what they love every day? I’m extraordinarily lucky.

DF: You’re an up-and-coming writer yourself, but what advice would you give writers just starting out?

KS: Writing is a passion and it is probably the only thing that keeps me entirely sane. That being said, there’s a difference between writing as a passion or a hobby and writing as a profession. If you want to be a published author, treat writing, querying an agent, working with an editor, whatever task you are completing, as a profession, and a highly competitive one at that. There is no room to feel sentimental about your writing, and you must be able to accept and be fueled by criticism. No matter that writing is a passion, publishing is a business. My last job was working for a state library where I managed retail operations and organizing author events. I learned an incredible amount about the retail and promotional side of the publishing business. That experience was invaluable and still serves me as I am learning to navigate my new profession.

DF: Can you please name one random fact about yourself?

KS: I read in the shower.

To learn more about Kat Spears, check out her official website, like her Facebook page, or follow her on Twitter @katwritesbooks.

The Writer's Bone Interviews Archive

Maybe I’m A Panda: 8 Questions With Author Stuart Dybek

Stuart Dybek

By Dave Pezza

After reading a rave review in The New York Times Book Review for Stuart Dybek’s Ecstatic Cahoots, I picked myself up a copy and fell in love with his beautiful prose.

Dybek answered some of my questions recently about his style, Chicago, and creative writing’s place in the age of advanced technology.

Dave Pezza: Was writing always an ambition of yours? Was there ever a decisive moment when you knew crafting stories was a calling?

Stuart Dybek: I actually have an essay on the subject of discovering metaphor in fourth grade—but it is too long to reprise here. Writing caught my attention as an art around 17 in senior year of high school, around the same time I fell in love with jazz. The two have always felt related to me on a purely subjective level.

DP: I’m just about finished with one of your latest collections Ecstatic Cahoots, where you have managed to beautifully blend piecemeal narrative story telling with a poetic style of diction. There seems to be so much worked into such a small amount of words. Do these vignettes take a long time to develop and mold?

SD: Those short pieces are often worked over the way a poem is, but, on the other hand, I don’t want to single them out, as longer pieces can take as much work. One hopes the short ones, like poems, will invite a reader to reread them.

DP: Chicago is a reoccurring setting in your fiction; the city’s almost a character of its own in some of your stories. Does the Windy City still draw a lot of creative power from you?

SD: I grew up in a very urban inner city area, and so it is probably safe to say that by nature I’m at heart an urban writer, and depicting the city—for me, it’s Chicago—is akin to creating a huge back drop canvas whose imagery and mood both expresses and impacts the story. But it doesn’t have to be a city. Some of my stories depict other places.

DP: Speaking of Chicago, you are the Distinguished Writer in Residence at Northwestern University. Tell us a little about working closely with the University’s writing program?

SD: NU is a school that is deeply invested in writing of all kinds. There’s an MFA program that I teach in Continuing Studies. Most of the students are older and working day jobs—cops, reporters, librarians, high school teachers. It’s a pleasure to teach because it’s a population that has work to write about. I also teach an undergrad workshop in writing fabulism that I pretty much developed for NU, and that class has been a revelation. Each quarter at least one student at age 20 or 21 writes a publishable story. I tried it as an experiment, but now I won’t teach anything else.

DP: Do you have any advice for aspiring writers looking for writing programs in either the undergraduate or graduate level?

SD: One learns writing as one learns the other arts: by doing. Want to play sax. Get a sax and start practicing. A good teacher can help make you better, accelerate the learning curve. Same with writing, only your medium is abstract: words. The craft isn’t so obvious as it is for music, but it is there, and you need to learn it by writing, practicing—i.e. rewriting—and reading like crazy.

DP: Many of your stories are set in a pre-technologically saturated America. Is that time period you’re most comfortable period of experience to draw from, or do you think there is something more romantic about landlines and photographs hidden in drawers instead of in digital clouds?

SD: I think we’re living in an age when the old and new technologies are cohabiting. The story you are referring to actually had a version in which the nude photo is hidden on a computer. I liked that one particular piece better with a hidden photo so that affected my choice, but only in the case of that particular story. What I love about your question though is its implication, which I totally agree with. You mostly can’t simply trade one for the other. Changing the technology in the story usually changes the final effect.

DP: Do you have any good book or poetry collection recommendations? We’re always looking for a good read here at Writer’s Bone.

SD: Edward Hirsch’s book-length poem Gabriel and Fady Joudah’s book that won the 2007 Yale Series of Younger Poets competition with an introduction by Louise Gluck who judged it wonderful. It is called The Earth in the Attic.

DP: Last one, swear. Can you tell us something random or surprising about yourself?

SD: I can leave you with a haiku I wrote at a Japanese restaurant with my two little grand kids, Nat and Jules:

I look into my bowl of miso soup

And see a panda.

Maybe I’m a panda.

To learn more about Stuart Dybek, check out his biography on Northwestern’s website or like his Facebook page.

The Writer's Bone Interviews Archive

Championing the Loser: 13 Questions With Grit Lit Author Steph Post

Steph Post

By Sean Tuohy and Daniel Ford

“Grit Lit” author Steph Post reached out to Sean and I recently, and we were immediately intrigued by her brand of literature.

Her novel, A Tree Born Crooked, features a main character with “a tough-as-nails exterior and an aching emptiness inside,” a rural mining town in Florida, a murder/robbery, and a Mafia pursuit. That’s got Writer’s Bone written all over it. Don’t be surprised if you see Post’s byline on our website in the near future.

Post graciously answered our questions about her early influences, how she went about getting her novel published, and her youthful love of fried gator.

Writer’s Bone: When did you decide you wanted to be a writer?

Steph Post: Probably before I even knew what being a writer meant. I was a dreamer and a storyteller when I was kid. I’ve just always been telling stories, to myself or to others, and one day when I was around 11 or 12 years old it occurred to me that the stories I was dreaming up weren’t all that different from the stories I was reading in books. Once that revelation hit me, it pretty much took off from there and I’ve been writing ever since.

WB: Who were some of your early influences? Have those influences changed over time?

SP: My first real writing influences were female Southern writers along the lines of Sheri Reynolds and Dorothy Allison. From there, I became enamored by writers such as Daniel Woodrell, Cormac McCarthy, and Jim Harrison. I saw how these writers could make ordinary moments into these beautiful, if disturbing, stories and in many ways that is exactly what I strive for with my own writing.

WB: What is your writing process like?

SP: There are a lot of steps. In the dreaming, planning stages of a novel, the characters always come first. I spend a lot of time developing the characters, getting to know everything I can about them, discovering their secrets, their motives and their vulnerabilities. I also do a lot of research during this stage, which helps with developing the storylines. From there, I just start on the first page and keep at it. I outline as I go along to keep it interesting. I don’t want to know what is going to happen too far in advance, because part of the fun of writing is discovering the story for yourself. Then, of course, comes revisions, re-writes, edits, and all that jazz.

WB: You seem to have a similar appreciation for badass writers as we do. Who are some of your favorite badasses?

SP: As far as authors go, I love people who take risks and aren’t afraid to back down. Recently, I’ve been in the company of some badass short story writers: Taylor Brown, Schuler Benson and Sheldon Lee Compton. In my opinion, short fiction is already difficult and these authors push the envelope as far as it will go. And then they execute the prose perfectly. To me, that’s about as badass as you can get in the literary world.

WB: How did you develop your “Grit Lit” style?

SP: When I was writing A Tree Born Crooked, I had no idea that I was writing in any sort of style. I was just writing the best way I knew how. It wasn’t until I was about halfway into my second novel that I realized there was a name for the style I write in. I’ve just always had the goal to write about the losers, about the people struggling and grappling with just being alive, and to write about them with a lyric sensibility.

WB: How did the idea for your novel, A Tree Born Crooked, originate?

SP: The character of James came first. Once I knew him inside and out, the rest of the story just flowed from there. This is also one of the few instances where I had the title before I even began writing. I was still figuring out who James, Rabbit, and Marlena were when my husband called me and told me he had the title of my novel, A Tree Born Crooked. It’s a reference to a line in a Tom Waits’ song and I knew it was golden. I had no idea how the title would relate to the story until I was about halfway through the first draft. And then it all fell into place perfectly.

WB: How much of yourself—and the people you have daily interactions with—did you put into your main characters? How do you develop your characters in general?

SP: I tend to think that I don’t put much of myself into my characters, but then people are always finding me in them. I suppose that’s natural, because we have to draw inspiration from somewhere, even if we’re not aware of it at the time. I think that many traits from the friends and family I grew up with find their way into my characters. And then, of course, I’m influenced just by watching people. I used to be a bartender and I spent a lot of time just watching people in bars. I’m sure that many of those people have in some way become part of the characters in my books.

WB: How did you go about getting your novel published?

SP: At first, I went the traditional route of finding an agent, but in the end I decided to forgo an agent and go with a small, indie press. I’m glad that I did because, for better or worse, it’s forced me to learn a lot more about the publishing world than I ever would have if I had been working with an agent. Even if I don’t have to, I tend to start from the bottom and claw my way up.

WB: Being from Florida, you have to answer these questions: FSU or UF…and have you eaten gator?

SP: UF. Absolutely UF. Are you kidding? And yes, I have eaten alligator. I’ve been a vegetarian for 17 years, but when I was a kid I was all about some fried gator tail.

WB: Speaking of Florida, what is the strangest thing to happen to you in the Sunshine State?

SP: Wow, okay, this is Florida and so pretty much everything that happens here is strange. If something totally bizarre is going on in the news, you can bet that it’s probably occurring here. As for happening to me personally, well, I grew up in the country in north Florida and as a kid I was chased by a lot of wild animals. We used to get all kinds of crazy animals in our front yard—wild boars, alligators, etc.—and so every day it was an adventure just to get down the road to the bus stop. I think that by now, strange is just normal.

WB: What’s next for Steph Post…besides becoming a contributor to Writer’s Bone (see what we did there)?

SP: I’m currently trying to decide what route I want to take with my second novel—indie press again, literary agent, etc.—and I’m also in the planning stages of my third. I’m right in the heart of researching and character development and I’m so in love with the story. Of course, I’m always in love with what I’m writing. Otherwise, I wouldn’t be writing it.

WB: What advice would you give writers just starting out?

SP: As far as navigating the publishing world, keep your options open and don’t give up. You will be rejected. You will feel like a failure. But if you’re any good, you’ll pick yourself up and keep going. As for craft, make sure that you love your manuscript. You are going to be spending a lot of time with it, you will most likely read it over a hundred times from first draft to final proofing, and so you want to make sure that you believe in it wholeheartedly.

WB: Can you name one random fact about yourself?

SP: I have really, really strange phobias. For example, sea sponges. I can’t even look at them. I can do all sorts of crazy, dangerous, daring things, but don’t put me in a room with a sea sponge. I mean it.

If you want to learn more about Steph Post, check out her official website, like her Facebook page, or follow her on Twitter @StephPostAuthor.

The Writer's Bone Interviews Archive

The Cat’s Meow: 13 Questions With Author Marie-Helene Bertino

Marie-Helene Bertino

By Daniel Ford

It was the title of Marie-Helene Bertino’s book that caught my eye. 2 A.M. at the Cat’s Pajamas is not something you encounter on every walk through your neighborhood Barnes & Noble. The novel’s lime green back cover did the rest of the work, pulling me in like a tractor beam.

Degenerate music club. Broken characters. Dark Philly streets. I was 10 pages deep before I remembered I had to go back to work. I was all in.

The best thing I can say about Bertino’s book (for now, I’ll have an official recommendation coming in October) is that it is a constant surprise. Sentences hit you with left hooks after you’re punch drunk from right hand jabs, multiple storylines dance nimbly to the accompanying music, and Bertino writes with a confidence typically reserved for seasoned masters. I’m less than 25 pages from the end and am reading a page at a time because I don’t want it to end.

Bertino talked to me recently about her early influences, her writing process, and the inspiration behind 2 A.M. at the Cat’s Pajamas.

Daniel Ford: When did you decide you wanted to be a writer?

Marie-Helene Bertino: I decided when I was 4 years old, and I decide again, every day.

DF: Who were some of your influences?

MHB: My brothers were my first influences. They are older than me, and I saw them writing when I was a little girl. There was such mystery and delight surrounding the activity of them scribbling into their copybooks, and I wanted in on that. In grade school, the stories of Lloyd Alexander and Madeleine L’Engle and the fantasy genre in general were huge influences. In high school and college, poets were my biggest influence. After college, I went to London to study Shakespeare. Later, irreverent surrealists like Etgar Keret, Aimee Bender, Amy Hempel, Jim Shepard, and Raymond Carver guided my first forays into fiction.

DF: What is your writing process like? Do you listen to music? Outline?

MHB: I don’t normally listen to music or outline, unless I need a jolt back into the story. When I’m “composing” a new piece if you will (will you?), it needs to be quiet in the palace. Nothing louder than my cat padding across the floor. When I’m writing non-fiction or revising, I listen to NPR all day. I do a fine impression of Lakshmi Singh if I may say so (may I?), and groove without realizing to the Brian Lehr Show theme song.

DF: You teach at NYU, The Center for Fiction, The Sackett Street Workshops, and the Emerging Writer’s Workshop for One Story. How have all of these organizations influenced your writing?

MHB: My students at NYU are brilliant and energetic, willing to fearlessly try new things. I leave class inspired and chuckling a lot. This semester I began teaching in the low-residency program at IAIA (Indian American Institute of the Arts), based in Santa Fe. IAIA’s mission is “to empower creativity and leadership in Native arts and cultures through higher education, lifelong learning, and outreach.” It is a new M.F.A. program built out of deeply ingrained tradition and feeling, and I am already learning so much from the other faculty members and students. In the workshops at IAIA, CFF, Sackett, and One Story the students are sometimes several years past college age. They normally work day jobs in unrelated fields before coming to class each night. I have a very real understanding of the sacrifices they make to be there, and their determination and talent stokes my own desire to keep writing.

DF: Your first published work was a collection of short stories titled, Safe as Houses. What drew you to short stories originally and why did you make the decision to switch to the novel format?

MHB: I like the canvas of short stories, that they are in essence a magic trick. Other magic stories compelled me to write my own. “Why Don’t You Dance” from Raymond Carver was the first one I remember giving me that gut punch—only not the story. It was produced as a short film at The Tribeca Film Festival years ago, and I liked the film so much I sought out the author. The last lines of that story still hold great alchemy for me. While I was writing the stories in Safe as Houses, I switched back and forth to 2 A.M. at The Cat’s Pajamas. The scope of the latter’s story overflowed a story container. It took a long time for it to teach me how to write it.

DF: How long did it take you to complete your first novel 2 A.M. at the Cat’s Pajamas?

MHB: That’s a tricky question to answer, because I didn’t work on it for hours every day for 12 years, though all in all, from first word to publishing, it was that long. During that time I wrote a children’s book, another novel, my short story collection, in addition to becoming the person I had to be to write the novel. So, that’s a loose figure, at best.

DF: Did you know you had something good when you finished?

MHB: I knew I had something that was exactly what I wanted to say.

DF: How did the idea for the story originate?

MHB: I was having a string of late nights in Philadelphia, hanging with friends and hearing music. Then I moved away and became homesick. I wanted to write something that felt the way I felt when I was in the city with these friends. But it took a long time to figure out how to do it. It’s not a one to one ratio. And, music is deceptively tricky to write about.

DF: How much of yourself—and the people you have daily interactions with—did you put into your main characters? How do you develop your characters in general?

MHB: I am lucky that I was raised by a woman who has an uncanny knack for understanding a broad variety of people. My mom worked for forty years for people living with severe mental disabilities. She taught me to be a people person, in the true sense of that word. This includes the world-weariness that only people who truly love other people encounter. In any case, I’ve always been interested in other people’s experiences. I’ve held two jobs that required me to interview people—in one case, musicians, in the other, people living with TBI, but I’ve been informally interviewing people my whole life.

DF: 2 A.M. at the Cat’s Pajamas has gotten great reviews. What has that experience been like and what’s one memorable moment that will stick with you?

MHB: I hesitate to admit this, but I don’t read reviews. I hesitate because sometimes this seems to invite people to tell me what they think about me not reading reviews. But I decided long ago to put to route anything that is bad for my writing. And, I can’t see how an overly positive or overly negative review could help my writing in any way. I also decided never to walk in anyone’s shadow. If I fail, if I succeed, at least I lived as I believe. No, wait. That last part was Whitney Houston.

DF: What’s next for Marie-Helene Bertino following the success of your first novel?

MHB: Oh, you know. Writing, writing, writing. I’m puttering right now, on a book and stories, the way a gardener putters in her garden. I’m doing a lot of readings—which is a lot of fun. I’d like to do more readings, visit schools, talk to emerging writers. I’d like to visit Arthur Avenue in the Bronx for the first time. And India. I’d also like to figure out how to make a flower crown, and teach my dog to turn around while standing on his hind legs. I don’t know about that last one. He just doesn’t seem interested.

DF: What advice would you give writers just starting out?

MHB: I have so much advice for new writers, but here is one specific tidbit: Ask yourself, what am I avoiding in my writing? And, force yourself to write it. Maybe it’s dialogue, sex scenes, descriptive scenes, scenes where more than two people are speaking, dialogue beats, whatever have you. Force yourself to write two pages of it. Again, and again. Work to refine that skill like you would a weak muscle. And keep doing that every so often, no matter what level you reach.

DF: Can you please name one random fact about yourself?

MHB: Besides the Lakshmi Singh thing? I am preternaturally adept at parallel parking.

To learn more about Marie-Helene Bertino, visit her official website, like her Facebook page, or follow her on Twitter @mhbertino.

The Writer's Bone Interviews Archive

Writing the Hero: 10 Questions With Best-Selling Author David Wood

David Wood

By Sean Tuohy

Action, adventure, and good times. Those are all things you'll find whenever you crack open an adventure novel by David Woods. You will most likely find yourself reading a Dane Maddock tale since he's Woods' main hero in an ongoing series.

Woods took a few minutes away from writing to sit down and chat about his work, where his love the adventure story stems from, and what writers need to do to stay ahead of their worst enemy: them-selves.

Sean Tuohy: When did you know you wanted to be a writer?

David Woods: I started reading at an early age and working as an author was a dream of mine since childhood, but I thought of it as an unrealistic fantasy, like being a rock star or professional athlete. Looking back, I wish I had pursued my dream much earlier in life instead of waiting until my 30s.

ST: What books captured you as a young reader?

DW: Early on, childrens' mystery series like The Hardy Boys and Nancy Drew, but it was the classic adventure stories like The Lost World and the Doc Savage books that truly captivated me and fueled my imagination.

ST: Who were your early influences?

DW: Aside from the books mentioned above, Clive Cussler's early books had a big impact on me. When I was a pizza delivery guy in college, I'd listen to his books on tape (yes, I'm old) and concoct my own adventure stories in my head.

ST: How long did it take to complete your first novel?

DW: After years of procrastination, I took part in National Novel Writing Month, in which writers are challenged to write a short novel in a month. I knocked out most of my first book, Dourado, during that month, and then spent about three more months working on it. I don't recommend working that fast on a first novel. I eventually wound up going back, doing more work on it, and republishing it to address issues with the manuscript. It didn't hurt my career in the long run, but as an inexperienced writer, I should have taken a more measured pace.

ST: Where did your hero, Dane Maddock, come from?

DW: Personality-wise, he's a little bit Dirk Pitt and a little bit Indiana Jones, but I wanted to avoid the "too perfect" action hero, so he's got shortcomings, many of which are balanced out by his partner, "Bones" Bonebrake. Some readers don't like it when the hero makes mistakes or struggles with indecision or her/his conscience, but most of the readers I hear from feel that these qualities make him more believable.

As far as what he does, Dane is a manifestation of my fascination with mysteries and legends. I can't find the Ark of the Covenant, solve the riddle of Oak Island, or find Atlantis, so he does it for me!

ST: What does the future hold for Dane Maddock?

DW: Whenever I get a question about the future of my characters, I usually reply "everybody dies," but this earns me threatening looks from my wife, so I'm trying to stop. In his next adventure, Dane will head off in search of Noah's ark, and readers can count on the usual twists in the story so it will hopefully feel like a new and fresh tale despite the well-covered subject matter.

ST: What is your writing process?

DW: I start out with an ancient mystery for Dane and Bones to solve, a few cool locations for them to visit, and (usually) a creature out of legend, like the chupacabra, to work in to the story. I make a very loose outline, and then plan out five or so chapters at a time. I write those chapters, do more research and plotting, and do it all over again until the first draft is finished. Along the way, I take notes about changes I want to make, but I always finish the first draft before making any changes to what I've already written. The last thing I do is go back and write the historical prologue. This might seem backward, but because I always apply twists to the "mystery from history" my characters are solving, I like to find out how the story ends before crafting the prologue.

ST: Do you do a lot research for your books?

DW: I do a lot of research on whatever mystery provides the book's back-story. This includes visiting some really whacked-out forums where people share some truly far-fetched theories, because these places often provide inspiration for the twists at the story's end. I also do a lot of research on the various settings, because it's important to me that the reader feels he is really there while reading. Most of my research doesn't make it into the story, and it's always a bit of a bummer when I finish the book because I wish I could share everything I learned.

ST: What advice do you give to first time writers?

DW: Write fast so you can outrun your doubts and insecurities. Write the kinds of stories you love to read. Join a critique group and seek out podcasts and websites that will help you refine your craft.

ST: Can you tell us one random fact about yourself?

DW: Only one? Hmmm... I'm a second-degree black belt in Taekwondo.

To learn more about David Woods, check out his official website, like his Facebook page, or follow him on Twitter @davidwoodweb.

The Writer's Bone Interviews Archive

Writing Fedora: 10 Questions With Historical Crime Writer Kelli Stanley

Kelli Stanley

By Daniel Ford

You’ve got to respect a writer who pursues her craft while wearing a smart fedora.

Kelli Stanley’s biography on her official website could double as Writer’s Bone’s mission statement:

“Kelli earned a Master’s Degree in Classics, loves jazz, old movies, battered fedoras, Art Deco and speakeasies.”

It gets better. Stanley is best known for her Miranda Corbie series of historical noir novels and short stories set in 1940 San Francisco. City of Dragons won the Macavity Award for Best Historical Novel, and was nominated for the Los Angeles Times Book Prize, a Shamus Award, a Bruce Alexander Award, and an RT Book Reviews Award. She also writes a “Roman Noir” series that takes place in ancient history.

Stanley took a break from the past, pushed back her fedora, and answered a few of my questions about her novels and writing process.

Daniel Ford: When did you decide you wanted to be a writer?

Kelli Stanley: I’m not sure if I ever did, actually—writing was just something I did. Poetry, mainly, though I wrote my first play (a noir, of course) when I was 8 years old. I loved writing term papers, speeches, letters, anything.

At the same time, because writing was so much a part of me, I never considered pursing an actual career in it…so my academic history is checkered with experimentation. I was a drama major for a couple of years, flirted with film and English, and finally settled on art history and classics, with a Master’s Degree in the latter.

It was during my collegiate career as a classic major that I was first exposed to Steven Saylor’s mystery series set in Late Republic Rome, and I thought to myself “Gee…I wonder if I could do that?”

Translation was one of the aspects of classics that I enjoyed the most (and something for which I won awards), but I didn’t want to concentrate solely on translation. And the closer the “terminus” of Ph.D. approached, the more squeamish I became.

I eventually realized that the breadth of study in classics is one of the key elements that drove me to its pursuit, and that a doctorate would kill the very thing I love, i.e. force me to specialize. I’d already written Nox Dormienda in my senior year (while also working on my thesis), so I threw caution to the winds and decided to pursue publication—which is different than deciding to be a writer, and a whole lot more complicated.

Alea iacta est, and I crossed the Rubicon in 2007 when I got word that my book would be published the following year.

DF: What is your writing process like? Do you listen to music? Outline?

KS: I outline in order to interweave the usually-two-but-potentially-more subplots of the novel and to maintain a suspenseful pace punctuated by dramatic beats—a must with writing crime fiction, especially anything with thriller overtones. For me, an outline is like a road map from which you are free to deviate when you find a side road that begs for exploration.

I only listen to music that Miranda might hear or encounter, and I do that for research and inspiration—not while I’m actually crafting sentences. Writing is its own music, and writing a novel is like a composing a symphony—and music gets in the way of music.

DF: You’re best known for your Miranda Corbie series of historical noir novels and short stories set in 1940 San Francisco—which include City of Ghosts, City of Secrets, and City of Dragons. What drew you to noir and who were some of your early influences? What made you decide 1940s San Francisco as a setting?

KS: I’ve always been drawn to the period of American history from the 1920s through the end of the WWII. I’ve also always adored film noir. As a little girl, I could do a mean Jimmy Cagney impression! I must have been born with a noir gene. Not many people in my third grade class could figure out why I was writing a play about gangsters, spies, and an unfaithful, treacherous girlfriend.

My actual taste of literary noir didn’t come until I was an adult, however. I grew up reading Sherlock Holmes and Agatha Christie as a child (and Dame Agatha is far darker than many people think).

Raymond Chandler was my first real writing teacher. I devoured everything he wrote, and realized style, as he once said (and I paraphrase) is all a writer really has to call her own, so you need to develop it, hone it, and protect it. Hammett followed—to him, I owe the importance of existential, tough-as-nails realism, the moral force of class warfare, and the beauty of bare-bones story-telling.

I think of Chandler and Hammett as (in a bizarre way) the Catullus and Horace of hardboiled literature. The latter two were contemporary Roman poets who were both brilliant in contradictory and complementary ways, as were Hammett and Chandler. Other influences include Cornell Woolrich, Vera Caspary, Daphne du Maurier, and (particularly in opposition to his misogyny) James M. Cain…along with a host of other writers, including those who wrote for Hollywood.

I’ve been at least as influenced outside the genre as inside—because, frankly, I don’t really believe in genres. Because I grew up reading constantly—mostly poetry and literature—I’ve been influenced by a range of authors and poets from Thomas Hardy to Steinbeck to Poe to James to Shakespeare to Dickens to Saroyan to Fitzgerald to Austen to Hemingway to Nathanel West to Shirley Jackson to Whitman to Sophocles to O’Neil to Ray Bradbury to Tennessee Williams to…you get the idea. I guess the linking component is great writing, particularly with a strong lyrical aspect or skeletal framework.

As for San Francisco…well, I live here. It’s a fabled city with a fabled past, and a distinct type of noir atmosphere that is older than Los Angeles’—stemming from her Gold Rush days of desperation, sweat, and broken dreams. It’s a city with a corrupt police force at the time (Los Angeles did not have the lock on that, sadly), and with Hammett as the inspirational literary pipeline. It also embodies the dichotomy of outrageous beauty coexisting on top of ugly social conditions and nostalgic, romantic views of the past vs. historical truths…a main theme I explore with the books.

DF: How long did it take you to complete your first novel? Has your writing process changed in anyway since that initial endeavor?

KS: I was working on my thesis at the time, so actually writing it took about a year and a half. My process has become more solidified, if no less terrifying. Ask virtually any published author and they’ll tell you the same thing: you wonder whether or not you can write with every book you face. It’s the horror of the vacuum, that blank page fear, and the sad fact that most of us are terribly insecure.

DF: Do you have an in-depth research process?

KS: I research constantly. I don’t have anything I’d dignify by calling it a process. There are a few things I do with every book, however: go to the main library and research newspapers from the dates I’ve selected for the narrative; research Life Magazine from the same dates; consult my many, many of-the-period reference books; study photos and videos and any pertinent documentary footage; search out and secure story-related ephemera to add to my ever-growing collection. That collection, by the way, includes all kinds of souvenirs from the World’s Fair on Treasure Island, train schedules, journals, railroad china, and all sorts of other inspirational and forgotten bits of daily life that I use to flesh out the books and make them seem three-dimensional.

I’m something of a fanatic about research, and was very honored that City of Dragons won the Macavity Award for best historical mystery.

DF: You also write a series set in first century Roman Britain—which include the novels The Curse-Maker and Nox Dormienda. How did the idea for this series come about and what are some of the defining attributes of “Roman Noir?” KS: Well, as I mentioned earlier, I was staring at “the end,” aka matriculation. So, in a sense, “Roman Noir” was, itself, born from a noirish desperation to find something to do with my degree and my life that wasn’t just the typical “get a doctorate, go teach” path.

KS: As for what it is…firstly, it’s a playful pun on the French literary term for noir or hardboiled. Secondly, it’s my idea of translating the sometimes strange but always human ancient world into a more modern and relatable feel and style. Noir and hardboiled conventions suit Rome and suit the culture…so, in this case, instead of Latin poetry, I’m translating history.

That said, as a classical scholar, my research is extremely accurate. When I speculate, I do so with the evidence and credentials to make an argument or write a journal article. That’s one reason I was so honored and delighted to win the Bruce Alexander Award for Nox Dormienda, my debut novel.

Some people get confused by the approach. They apparently believe that Romans should be written according to the upper class British or Transatlantic accents with which they are nearly always portrayed in film and television. I mean, c’mon—Romans weren’t all wordy, nerdy, rhetorically grandiose characters. Not that my language in the books is anachronistic—far from it. The metaphors and similes so associated with hardboiled are based on actual history and actual Roman culture.

DF: True or false: You write while wearing your fedora.

KS: True. I wear my “writing fedora,” which is a beat-up vintage Champ felt. The reason is that it’s a visual cue for my partner to know I’m “in the zone,” i.e. don’t talk to me unless it’s really important.

I own many fedoras—from red to orange, from summer straw to winter felt, vintage and modern—but other than my old Champ, I don’t wear them around the house.

DF: What does the future hold for Kelli Stanley?

KS: Right now, I’m working on the next Miranda Corbie novel, City of Sharks, which is the last one on this particular contract. I hope to be able to write more Miranda and to hopefully pen not just another Roman book, but a few other things rattling around in my head: a stand alone thriller, a YA, and assorted other projects.

DF: What advice do you give to up-and-coming writers?

KS: Research the business, because it’s in a constant state of flux. Choose your agent carefully, and don’t settle for publication at all costs—sometimes it’s better to wait to be published really well.

Think before you self-publish. Publication, whether it’s traditional or done through Amazon, is a business. Ask yourself if you really want to put in the time and energy necessary to undertake that venture. Finish the book before you even think about contacting an agent, editor, or other professional. And, most importantly, keep at it.

DF: Can you please name one random fact about yourself?

KS: My first record album as a kid was “Free to Be…You and Me”, based on the Marlo Thomas television show. It’s still a great album with a great message for children, and I highly recommend it!

To learn more about Kelli Stanley, check out her official website, like her Facebook page, or follow her on Twitter @kelli_stanley.

The Writer's Bone Interviews Archive

A Walk Among The Tombstones With Author Lawrence Block

By Sean Tuohy

Later this month, former New York City detective Matt Scudder will slam his way into theaters across the nation in the new thriller “A Walk Among the Tombstones.” The film is based on the novel of the same name by legendary crime writer Lawrence Block, and was adapted to the big screen by award-winning writer/director Scott Frank (“Get Shorty,” “Minority Report,” “Out of Sight,” “The Lookout”). In the film, our drunken hero finds himself in the middle of a blood-soaked case when a drug kingpin's wife is kidnapped. Tough guy Liam Neeson plays Scudder and brings an edgy feel to the character.

I recently talked with Scudder’s creator Lawrence Block about the upcoming film.

Sean Tuohy: This is the second time Matthew Scudder has made it to the big screen. Are you excited to see him in the movies again?

Lawrence Block: Yes, very much so. “8 Million Ways to Die” didn't really work—artistically or commercially—although both Jeff Bridges and Andy Garcia did some very fine work in the film. “A Walk Among the Tombstones” is a much better film in every way, and very much reflects the book I wrote.

ST: What was process of turning your novel in to a movie?

LB: It took a long time. The film was just weeks away from commencement of principal photography when Harrison Ford changed his mind and pulled out. Then the project was dead in the water for over 10 years, and I never thought anything would come of it. But Scott never lost faith. He knew he wanted to make the film, and now he's done so...brilliantly.

ST Scott Frank has adapted novels before to wide acclaim. Were you excited to have him writing/directing the project?

LB: I was indeed. His adaptations of two Elmore Leonard novels, “Get Shorty” and “Out of Sight,” managed not merely to tell Leonard's stories but to capture his tone and attitude. I was particularly pleased when he elected to direct the film himself; I'd seen “The Lookout” (which he wrote and directed) and knew how good he was at this.

ST: “A Walk Among the Tombstones” is a pretty dark story. Why do you think this story was chosen to be turned in to a movie?

LB: Scott originally got Jersey Films to option the book just a couple of years after its 1992 publication. I don't know that darkness had anything to do with it; he read the book, liked it, and wanted to make it into a film.

ST: Liam Neeson plays Scudder this time around. How do you feel about that casting decision?

LB: I couldn't be happier. For years, Liam Neeson was up at the top of my own mental shortlist to play Scudder, ever since I saw him in “Michael Collins” (In my novel Everybody Dies, Michael Collins comes up in a long conversation between Scudder and Mick Ballou).

ST: How does it feel to see your work on the big screen?

LB: It's very gratifying. I've written well over a hundred books, and this is only the fourth to be filmed—and the first to be filmed at all well. So I'm obviously capable of being happy with a book whether or not it makes it to the screen. But that this book has been filmed, and filmed so brilliantly, feels better than I can describe.

ST: Final question. How do you take your popcorn?

LB: Intravenously.

“A Walk Among the Tombstones” comes out September 19, 2014.

Also check out:our first interview with the author, Mystery Novelist Lawrence Block On Why Writers Must Go On, 

The Writer's Bone Interviews Archive

In the Service of Writing: 11 Questions With Novelist Scott Cheshire

Scott Cheshire

By Daniel Ford

I first became aware of Scott Cheshire’s High as the Horses’ Bridles after reading a feature on Grantland recommending the novel.

I’m a sucker for books that explore father and son relationships, so I was already primed to be a huge fan. An intriguing discourse on religion and the New York City setting made me run to my nearest Barnes & Noble.

I’m not the only one that felt that way. The flames of damnation envelop Cheshire’s cover, but they may as well be a metaphor of how hot this book is. In addition to Grantland’s glowing review (no pun intended), High as the Horses’ Bridles, the novel earned positive reviews from The New York Times Book Review and The Washington Post, was a Time Out New York Critic’s Pick, and was an Amazon “Best Book of the Month” in July 2014. Not bad for a first novel!

Cheshire graciously answered some of my fan boy questions about his career, his writing process, and our shared love of Queens, N.Y. Boston-area readers eager to hear more from the author can attend his reading and Q&A at Harvard Book Store today at 7:00 p.m.

Daniel Ford: When did you start writing? Was it something that came to you naturally or was it developed over time?

Scott Cheshire: My earliest writing memory is a long handwritten letter, three or four pages, to my parents, making a strong defense for not cleaning my room. I was probably about 9 or 10 years old, which makes sense when I think about it, because while I spent most of my 20s and early 30s writing what might be called more typical stories, I seem to have returned to a more personal voice in my work. Thankfully, I am no longer addressing my parents. Instead, I’m talking to the universe. That came out as a joke, but I sort of mean it.

DF: What is your writing process like? Do you outline? Listen to music?

SC: Well, I’m certainly not the type of writer that “writes” every day, although almost everything I do is in the service of writing. I read every day, a lot. I have a reading schedule that is usually thematic, focused on whatever project I’m working on. As far as an outline, it’s funny, I was just talking recently with a writer about this. My first novel, which has an unorthodox shape and structure, was written in the dark (maybe all novels are). What I mean to say is I was learning how novels work while writing one, and was rather committed to that method. And so save for a few central ideas, I had no idea how the book would work. I did not outline. Whereas this new novel seems to be demanding one of me. I one day got a sense of the new book in its entirety, the outline of the book, which is a strange feeling.

And yes to music, always music. Lots of 1960s “free jazz” and noisy punk rock.

DF: When you first finished High as the Horses’ Bridles did you know you had something good, or did you have to go through multiple rounds of edits before you had something you felt comfortable sending out into the world?

SC: I thought I finished it several times. And I was always wrong, except once. When I finally got an agent, who’s a super reader, we worked some more on the manuscript. Same with my editor. As I said, the book has something of a strange shape, plus I worked on it for a long time (it’s so easy to get lost in the forest of your own work), so their input was welcome. I needed it. But I should also say the strangeness of the book led me to think I was working on something good, or at very least interesting. I also think my perspective, coming from a place of a particularly relevant religious disappointment, helped. I knew I was working on something that others wanted to read. I had to believe that.

DF: The book was named to Amazon’s Best Book of the Month in July 2014 and Grantland just ran a feature highly recommending it to readers. What have those positive experiences been like and has it affected the way you think about your work?

SC: It’s been wonderful, I have to say. The independent bookstores have been so incredibly supportive. Here in New York City, and as far thrown as Ann Arbor, Mich., Texas, Los Angeles, Portland, Ore., and Seattle. I had a chance to go west and read and found there a vibrant community of excited readers. Warmed my heart. But I also want to point out that Amazon has been super supportive of the book too because they are real fans of the book, which for some writers is a problematic statement. Including me. But I think it’s important to remember that Amazon, while largely monolithic, yes, also has individual editors that truly love books and care about book culture and are trying to better that system. I have met some of them. And they are people too it turns out. And readers thus far have very strong responses to the book. They love it or hate it. And I think that’s a good place to be.

DF: Your novel centers around religious belief and a father and son relationship defined in part by what they both believe. How much of yourself and your interactions with your family and friends did you put into the story? What was your inspiration for the story in the first place?

SC: I was raised as one of Jehovah’s Witnesses and because most young men in the world train as child preachers, I was a child preacher, too. Knocked on doors. Stood on stages, etc. So that certainly informed the story. But at some point I became aware that my story was not enough, and I soon became aware the story was really about America, about humanity in general, about our desire to make meaning, to transcend. I’m no longer a “believer,” but I found the more I dug into our national religious history the more I recognized myself. And it was uncomfortable, to be honest. But that makes for good fiction. As far as family, well, you draw from what you know, and I did that, but at the same time this story hardly resembles my life. Thankfully, my family agrees.

DF: New York City offers a writer a character that is instantly recognizable to readers, but can also slip into cliché when applied the wrong way. Was that something you were conscious of when choosing your setting? Or as a New Yorker, did you intrinsically know what pitfalls to stay away from?

SC: I was lucky because I found myself writing a story about character falling away from belief, no longer privileging a world to come, and now falling in love with the given physical world. And so Josie (the narrator) is looking, always looking at what things surrounds him. And it often feels like the first time he’s seen a chain link fence, a beach, a telephone pole, etc. And so I needed to be hyper-vigilant about avoiding cliché. Not to mention, I wanted to write about Queens (I’m from Queens), and there are not many writing about Queens. It seemed wide open territory.

DF: I lived in Queens, N.Y., for all of the 11 years I was in New York City and I loved every minute of it. What was it like growing up there and what’s one of your favorite Queens stories that didn’t end up as part of the novel?

SC: I love Queens. And I love Queens writers and writers who write about Queens (like novel-ists Victor LaValle, Bill Cheng, Matthew Thomas, John Weir, the poet Todd J. Colby, not to mention Kerouac and Whitman. Alas, these are all men, but are just a few off the top of my head…). And as far as a favorite story…that’s a fantastic question. I have a hundred. But here is a good one:

When I was about thirteen or fourteen, walking down 101st Ave., in Richmond Hill, headed for school, headphones on, listening to new wave, I’m sure (until very soon after I discovered Minor Threat and was changed forever after). I had my head down, bobbing it, not paying attention to what was in front of me. Until I walked right into somebody, almost knocked the guy over. I looked up…and there stood mafia don John Gotti (they were very present in my part of Queens). I looked around. I was surrounded by muscle, bear-sized men in tracks suits. I was lifted into the air, and thrown against a brisk wall by one his guys. My feet dangled. Gotti walked over to me (headphones now around my neck), looked me up and down, and laughed. He said, “He’s just a kid. Leave him alone.” I took the day off from school that day. Then again, I did that a lot.

DF: Tell me a little about your work with the Tottenville Review and the Sackett Street Writers' Workshop.

SC: I don’t work nearly as much as I used to with Tottenville Review, mostly because I’m writing a new book. It’s a great magazine with a great mission—to bring attention to books that might fall beneath the media radar. I was the interviews editor there for a few years, which basically meant I begged writers to talk to us and facilitated conversations between people. I paired up people to have a talk. As far as Sackett, Julia Fierro’s organization, it’s a fantastic New York institution. I teach small groups, nine or 10 people, and we meet in bars, bookstores, apartments, and we workshop work. We also do a lot of reading. We read and discuss short stories, in addition to the workshop stories, every week. I enjoy it immensely. Lately, I’m doing more one-on-one work, editing, manuscript notes, etc.

DF: What’s next for you following the success of High as the Horses’ Bridles?

SC: The next book is a thriller set in Queens, again and is about a family falling apart after their daughter goes missing. It’s shaping up to be rather dark. And funny. Hopefully dark and funny.

DF: What advice would you give to up-and-coming writers?

SC: Read like hell.

DF: Can you tell us one random fact about yourself?

SC: I’m right now staring at one of the ceramic-cast idols actually used on the set of "Raiders of the Lost Ark." One of these:

I treasure it. (Bad pun).

To learn more about Scott Cheshire, check out his official website, like him on Facebook, or follow him on Twitter @ScottCheshire.

The Writer's Bone Interviews Archive

The Importance of Pacing: 8 Questions With Thriller Author Ben Coes

Ben Coes

By Sean Tuohy

Many writers haven tried to bring the halls of power to life. Few have actually worked within them. Best-selling author Ben Coes began his career a political speechwriter in Washington D.C. before focusing his attention on thrillers.

David Morrell, the creator of Rambo and Writer’s Bone podcast guest, called his first novel, Power Down, “a fresh, exciting thriller” with action scenes that were “big, vivid, and authentic.” Coes has now written four novels in total and shows no signs of slowing down any time soon.

Coes took a few minutes to sit down and talk about his career, his process, the importance of pacing, and why writing is like building a house.

Sean Tuohy: When did you decide to write a thriller?

Ben Coes: In 2007, on New Year’s Day, I woke up and looked at my wife, Shannon.

By way of background, I had been thinking of writing a thriller for several years. I love thrillers and thought I could use my background in finance, politics, and the energy industry as part of a book about terror coming to American soil. But as much as I thought about it, I never actually started writing. So on this particular morning, I told Shannon for the first time how I wanted to write a book.

“Then get up and start writing,” she said. And I did. That morning, I wrote what became the first chapter of my first book, Power Down.

ST: How long did it take you to complete your first novel?

BC: Oh, man, just answering this question brings back horrible memories. It took about two years, maybe a little more. The actual first draft took about six months. The editing process took much longer.

I’ve always known how to write, but the construction of a novel isn’t just about words. It’s about pace, plot, character development, tension, and a million other things. My first stab at Power Down was a well-written mess. So I sought out help in the form of an experienced editor, a veteran of the publishing industry who’d worked with a number of authors. Using an analogy he took from the worked of architecture, he politely explained to me that I’d built a house but placed the kitchen on the third floor, the garage in the basement, and that I was missing a roof. In other words, I had to learn how to build a real novel.

If I’m a successful author, it’s because I listen to advice and guidance. It’s a very important quality to have as a novelist. I learned that skill working as a White House-appointed speechwriter. My boss, Betty, was a tough critic, and thank God for that. A writer needs tough critics. Most people don’t like to have their work torn apart and criticized. But it’s absolutely essential if you want to be a novelist.

ST: Your characters feel so real, are they based on any real people you have met while working with the government?

BC: Well, first of all, thanks for saying that. The most important thing I’m trying to create in my books is authenticity. My characters are a mixture of people I know and people I imagine. I like to take qualities I like in some of my favorite people, or dislike in some of the people I don’t like, and embed them in the characters in my books. Sometimes, as in the case of Teddy Marks, from Power Down, the character is based entirely on someone real. The real life Teddy was my godfather. He was a Navy SEAL who fought in Vietnam. He was a very important part of my life until his death from cancer a couple years ago. Teddy helped me understand certain key operational aspects to covert war, and certain experiences he had are re-created in my books, including the final battle scene in Coup d’État, my second book.

The hardest challenge to making a character feel real is how you do it with characters that are not based on real people. Dewey Andreas, my hero, is a good example. He’s made up, and yet for my readers, and for me, he feels real. Why? I think it’s because I endeavor to show him in his raw light, with his flaws and his strengths, and to show those little moments that we all have, the unglamorous moments. At the end of The Last Refuge, Dewey plays a game of quarters with a buddy. It’s one of my favorite scenes.

ST: Your thrillers stand apart from the rest because they are ground very much in the real world. Do you believe this enhances the experience for the reader?

BC: Thanks for saying that. I believe very strongly that the best thrillers use current events as a foundational element to the plot. I want current dangers and threats to play an actual role in my books versus simply using current events as ornamentation or backdrop. The reason I do this is because, for the reader, hopefully the feeling they get is that what they’re reading could in fact happen.

Power Down is about terrorists attacking a U.S. energy company. Coup d’État is about India and Pakistan and their ongoing conflict, a conflict which is especially perilous today due to the fact that both countries possess nuclear weapons, and one of the countries, Pakistan, is 98 percent Muslim and filled with jihadists. The Last Refuge is about Iran and Israel, and Iran’s ongoing surreptitious work to develop a nuclear bomb. Eye for an Eye, my fourth book, involves China’s ongoing technological war against America, a war which U.S. policy makers are only beginning to do something about. My next book, Independence Day, is about nuclear weapons that were formerly in the possession of the Soviet Union; it features an attack on the U.S. that one source of mine, a former high-ranking Pentagon official, told me was the number one terror threat facing America.

ST: What affect did your background have on your writing?

BC: My background is important in two ways. First, I worked at the White House and on several political campaigns. I think I understand that world where politics and national security intersect.

More important than the experiences I’ve had, however, was the training I had as a speechwriter. That’s when I learned how to have my work edited; to welcome feedback no matter how harsh.

ST: What is your writing process? Do you outline?

BC: I wake up very early – usually around 5:00 a.m. – and start writing. I am almost never psyched to start but I do it anyway because, if you are a writer, you write. No matter what you feel like, you write. Writing for me is a blue-collar job, like laying bricks or hammering nails. Writers write, not because they feel like it, because oftentimes you don’t. Writers write because they have to.

I don’t outline because I think it robs a thriller of the spontaneity a thriller needs. My best scenes invariably are the result of in-the-moment ideas I have while writing a scene; unplanned and therefore unpredictable, the way actual ops unfold.

ST: What advice do you give to new writers? 

BC: If you want to be a writer, you must write. Writers write. If you don’t write, you’re not a writer.

To write every day, there are steps you can take to help make it easier. Establish a routine. I like early in the day because you get it out of the way, and also because I don’t like writing at night, though I often do write at night. Set an operational goal for your writing—either word count or page count. I need to write five pages a day. That’s my minimum. Sometimes I can do that in an hour, sometimes it takes 18 hours. But if I don’t produce those five pages, I feel like I’ve failed that day.

Keep writing until you have a completed book. Don’t give up. When you do finish, then it’s time to get help. Be patient. Find the right people to help you. Don’t just start firing off a completed manuscript until you know it’s good. The process of finding an agent and ultimately a publisher is the last mile of a 26.2 mile marathon. You want to go into that final mile with your best possible work.

ST: Can you please give us one random fact about yourself?

BC: I go through about a bottle of Sriracha a week.

To learn more about Ben Coes, check out his official website, like his Facebook page, or follow him on Twitter @authorbencoes.

The Writer's Bone Interviews Archive

Getting Over Writer's Block: 9 Questions With Annalise Sierra

Annalise Sierra

By Sean Tuohy

One of the key elements of writing is that you have to share your writings with others. If you’re like me, you nervously hand your work-in-process to a peer and hope they don't notice all the misspellings. However, there are plenty of other ways to share, such as Annalise Sierra’s The Writer's Block. The Reno, Nev.-based showcase is an open mic for writers to help others share and craft their work.

Sierra was recently able to sit and chat a little bit about her on going showcase and to discuss the finer points of reading your work in public.

Sean Tuohy: Tell us about your background. What is your back story?

Annalise Sierra: Well, I might as well tell you, I was quite the rebellious child. To add to my charm, I happened to be very stubborn with an incredible will to (almost always) break my mother's strict rules for safety. The only peace she ever had from me was when I would get lost in a book or was busy writing poetry.

She taught me to read and write when I was close to 4 years old, but comprehension probably didn't kick in until much later. I was very fortunate she taught me these two essentials at an early age because it helped me search for answers I wasn't sure I was looking for.

I remember when I was about 5 or 6 years old, I decided to start my own business. I was writing poems in rhyme for my neighbors in my apartments. It was a friendly community so I wasn't shy about putting some poetry in their mail slots. I kindly asked for a quarter if they liked my work. I was giving it away for free. That's how you lure them in.

I'll never forget how embarrassed my mother felt when she found out I was asking our neighbors for quarters. She felt embarrassed, but I felt proud. This was probably one of the rare times I actually knew what I wanted out of life. I was sure (and, without a doubt, know) I could write every single day of my life and it would never get old.

ST: Where did the idea for The Writer's Block come from?

AS: I heard there was going to be a writing show at my favorite open mic, RMP (Reno Music Project) Acoustic Open Mic at Wildflower Village. I approached the man who was coordinating the events at the time, Michael Mac Millan. I pretty much threw myself at him (respectfully, of course) and did my best to convince him I'd be the best host ever. He eventually caved, but he claims he caved rather quickly and invited me to the Wildflower meeting the following Tuesday and bam: The Writer's Block was born.

ST: How long have you been running the show?

AS: I am proud to say I've been running this show since the very beginning. March 13, a month after my birthday exactly. The Writer's Block seemed like a late birthday present, but one worth waiting for and a dream come true.

ST: Is it hard for writers to go on stage and share their work?

AS: Hey now, writers are people too! We come in different shapes and sizes, as well as different egos and capacities for how much attention we can handle in a 10-minute set. People who read short stories or parts of their novel seem to go much smoother because you read until your time is up. Poets are a little different. There is something about them. They seem to be shy, and stay shy, no matter how many times they've been to the show. They still blush a little when you compliment their work. It's endearing to hear their words from their lips: personal, touching, raw.

ST: What is the most common type of story read at the event?

AS: Honestly, I don't think we have "common.” Us writers seem to be an unusual bunch. We have a funny man in a red suit and hat, a charming cowboy who is very authentic, a barefoot monk, a cross-dresser who teases us with steamy stories from when he used to be a call boy, a lovely schoolteacher who speaks boldly about love, and a very tall poet on the shy side and surprises me with his dark work. We always have a new crowd to listen in and enjoy our intimate setting of tea light candles and barely enough lights on because I still get shy on stage. The Writer's Block is like a safe haven for writers.

ST: What is the most interesting story you have heard someone share on stage?

AS: Of all the characters I mentioned, the cross-dresser stands out the most. Not because of the obvious, but because he clearly knows how to tease the crowd with a good story. Week after week, he's tortured and teased us with the juiciest parts of the story just when his time was up. He's shocking, unexpected, and sincerely human.

ST: Has there even been a bad reading?

AS: We have never had a bad reading. Writers get nervous sharing their work, but I never felt it was "bad.” I've always felt it made them honest.

ST: What does the future hold for The Writer's Block?

AS: I'm not sure what the future holds for The Writer's Block, but I can tell you I hope this show sticks around and remains a rock for writers who need an escape so they may share their words with a crowd who wants to hear it, and not just because the writers need to release it.

ST: Can you tell us one random fact about yourself?

AS: I am the kind of person who thinks "spicing things up" means reading a book from the last chapter first and going from there. I'd rather know how it ends and see how it came to be. The end isn't always the end. The beginning is.

To find out more about Annalise Sierra and The Writer's Block, check out the official website.

The Writer's Bone Interviews Archive

Perry Mason Disciple: 10 Questions With Crime Writer J.T. Ellison

J.T. Ellison

By Sean Tuohy

You know those things that go bump in the night? Most of us tend to hide under the covers. The New York Times best-selling author J.T. Ellison runs toward the sound with a flashlight in one hand and a note pad in the other.

With the help of favorite television lawyer Perry Mason, Ellison took her love for the macabre and mystery a step further and began writing novels about killers, cops, and everything in between. Her next novel, The Lost Key, was written with Catherine Coulter and comes out Sept. 30.

I sat down with Ellison to talk about her career, Perry Mason, and what the future holds.

ST: When did you know you wanted to be a writer?

JTE: I read very early, and was advanced for my age. So I was probably 8 years old and was writing some poetry and little short stories. I received my first rejection at 10 years old. My grandmother sent a poem I’d written to True Confessions magazine. Of course they said no…it was about slavery!

ST: You lived in rural Colorado and than moved to Washington D.C. Did this have an affect on your writing later in life?

JTE: I think it did. I was very sheltered in Colorado. We lived on a dirt road 40 minutes from the nearest town. There was a great group of über-smart people around, but it was small, and while my parents were wonderful about exposing me to culture, D.C. was so much more accessible and immediate. Politics permeated every discussion. We could go to the symphony and opera all the time, and did. There were so many different kinds of people, from all over the world. It was incredibly different, and helped round me out.

ST: How long did it take you to complete your first novel?

JTE: About a year. I did six months of research before I started writing. But I had a lot of stops and starts until I settled down to it full-time in 2003.

ST: Can you describe what influence Perry Mason had on your writing?

JTE: I thought Perry Mason was God when I was growing up—not a god, but God himself. No flowing beards and pearly gates. When I said my nightly prayers, it was a sober man in a black suit I was talking to. That may be where my crime fiction fascination came from.

ST: What draws you to crime fiction? Is it the mystery, the characters, the problem solving?

JTE: All of it. I’m fascinated by how awful people can be to one another. How cutthroat and mean and deadly. And how some people will fight to stop those capable of committing such heinous acts. I like white hats and black hats, like examining the why behind the crimes and the effect crime has on normal people.

ST: What is your writing process like?

JTE: I write daily, and shoot for 1,000 words a day. I do business first thing and really settle into my writing day around 10:00 a.m. or 11:00 a.m. I write until my husband gets home, with an hour break for lunch. I definitely do my best work in the late afternoon. I am not a morning person. There’s a lot of tea being pumped into my system.

ST: Do you have an in-depth research process?

JTE: I used to. I did a lot of hands-on work—ride-alongs, autopsies, and interviewing everyone I could find. Now it’s catch as catch can, skimming the important parts and supplementing on the go as I write. I have a great assistant who can grab details for me, and I read a lot of non-fiction. So much of my work is topical, sometimes too topical. So I can do research by reading the daily news.

ST: What does the future hold for J.T. Ellison?

JTE: More books, and more writing. I have a few more under contract right now, and ideas for more to come. The mass market of When Shadows Fall releases Aug. 26, the mass market of my first collaboration book, The Final Cut, with Catherine Coulter, comes out Sept. 2. The Lost Key, also with Catherine, comes out Sept. 30, and my next Dr. Samantha Owens book is due out in June 2015. No rest for the wicked, eh?

ST: What advice do you give to up and coming writers?

JTE: Read everything you can get your hands on. Read in your genre so you know what’s out there and what the standards are. Read Stephen King’s On Writing and Elizabeth George’s Write Away. Make lists. Journal. Anytime something strikes your fancy, write it down. Work everyday. Guard your writing time, it is your most precious commodity. Don’t give up. Simultaneously submit. Believe in yourself. If you’re hitting roadblocks, read The War of Art by Stephen Pressfield. If you have real writer’s block, try The Artist’s Way by Julia Cameron.

ST: Can you tell us one random fact about yourself?

JTE: I like golf. I am inches from being a crazy cat lady. And I am a really good shot with a pistol (Did I mention I am not a fan of math?).

To learn more about J.T. Ellison, check out her official website, like her Facebook page, or follow her on Twitter @thrillerchick.

The Writer's Bone Interviews Archive

Humble And Honest: Author Wally Lamb On How He Explores Truth

Wally Lamb

By Daniel Ford

I was in high school when my mother lent me her copy of Wally Lamb’s I Know This Much Is True.

At that time, I was still finding my way as a reader. I was reading classics on my own and in class, but was just starting to branch out into modern fiction.

Lamb’s critically acclaimed novel was like a thunderbolt to my young mind. I may not have fully appreciated his characterization or writing style at that age, but I was enough of a reader to know great writing when I saw it and I Know This Much Is True is superb prose. In college, a good friend of mine—who has read everything Lamb has ever published—recommended I go back and read She’s Come Undone. The novel remains one of the best I’ve ever read. It’s a masterpiece that should be required reading.

Lamb published his latest novel, We Are Water, in October 2013 and it features deep, well-thought out characters and a memorable multi-narrator structure (the paperback edition is available Aug. 12). He talked to me recently about how he caught the writing bug, how he lets his protagonists take the wheel, and how his work with the York Correctional Institution has affected his writing.

Daniel Ford: When did you start writing? Was it something that came to you naturally or was it developed over time?

Wally Lamb: When I was a kid, I wasn’t particularly interested in writing or reading, but I loved to draw. My specialties were cartoons and comic books. It was only in retrospect that I realized I was preparing myself for a life as a writer with this hobby. I began writing fiction in earnest the summer I was 30. This was also the summer that I became a first-time dad, so for me the two are intertwined.

DF: As a Connecticut boy myself, I’d be remiss if I didn’t ask how growing up in Connecticut influenced your early writing and your subsequent career.

WL: My hometown, Norwich, housed the largest state hospital for the mentally ill in Connecticut. The hospital campus both scared and fascinated me when I was a boy. And I’m from eastern Connecticut, which afforded me a different upbringing than if I’d grown up in the western part of the state. We root for the Red Sox, not the Yankees. We drop our "R’s" like Bostonians. I’ve quipped that western Connecticut is paté, and eastern Connecticut is liverwurst. My family was largely working class, as are most of my characters.

DF: What is your writing process like? Do you outline? Listen to music?

WL: I sometimes envy writers who can outline their stories and then write toward some preconceived ending. That seems like it would be a much more efficient way to write a novel than the way I do it, which is to write in a character’s voice and allow that character to take me into a story and reveal himself or herself a little at a time. The plot evolves from what the character reveals and I have no idea when I begin where the story will take me. For instance, when I wrote my second novel, I Know This Much Is True, I began with the angry voice of a character named Dominick. I had no idea then that he had a brother, much less an identical twin, or that that twin’s mental illness would circumscribe his own life into adulthood.

DF: She’s Come Undone and I Know This Much Is True were best-sellers, featured on Oprah’s Book Club, and put you on the map as a writer. What were those early experiences like and how did they shape your mindset and career going forward?

WL: She’s Come Undone was picked by Oprah in 1997 (five years after its publication) and I Know This Much Is True in 1998, right after I finished that novel. It was like a pair of rides on a really cool roller coaster: a little scary but mostly fun. But then the ride was over and it was time to go to work on a new novel. The success of the first two novels intimidated me for a while; I was afraid to write because I was afraid to fail. My insecurity kept suggesting that I was a fake and that now everyone would find out. I had to let go of my focus on my readers’ reactions and rededicate myself to the reason why I started writing fiction in the first place: to discover and explore my own truths honestly and humbly.

DF: One of the defining characteristics of your novels is well-rounded characters that realistically and poignantly struggle to become better people. What’s your approach to character development?

WL: My approach is to sit in the passenger seat and let the protagonist drive the story. Slowly, the character reveals what I need to know: is he or she a reliable or unreliable narrator? Do other characters need to speak up, too? Does the main character’s childhood reveal who this person has become as an adult? After I complete a draft, I then have to begin again, going deeper with the knowledge I’ve accrued about this person. The real writing begins once you start sculpting the lump of clay you’ve generated—in other words, revising your highly imperfect initial draft.

DF: How has your experience as a volunteer facilitator at York Correctional Institution, a women’s prison in Connecticut, influenced your writing and how has it affected you in general?

WL: Through their writing and discussion, the incarcerated women with whom I work have opened my eyes to many realities about which I was previously ignorant: the injustice of the justice system with regard to people of color for one; the lack of mercy and relative indifference to rehabilitation in the American penal system for another; for a third, the sad fact that the majority of incarcerated women were victims of incest and/or violence as children. This has not only informed my fiction to some degree but also made me what I call an “accidental activist” for fairer treatment of our imprisoned populations. Once you hear the stories and see what sometimes goes on in prison, you can no longer unsee and unhear these things. Denial is no longer an option.

DF: There are multi-year gaps between your novels—including, of course, your collection of essays. Is that because of your teaching schedule or is your writing/editing process more deliberate than most writers?

WL: Both, I think, and also because I’m a pokey writer and, during bad writing stretches, a procrastinator.

DF: Was your writing process any different for your most recent novel We Are Water?

WL: Yes. We Are Water is not told by a single narrator, but by eight different voices: four female, four male. Thus, the story becomes a mosaic rather than a straight narrative that takes the reader from point A to point B and so on. This way of revealing the story allows the reader to become more interactive, I think. You have to decide whose viewpoints you trust and whose you don’t. Different readers root for different characters. I’m told that this makes for an interesting book discussion because not everyone is on the same page.

DF: Where did the inspiration for We Are Water come from and how did you go about developing your main characters?

WL: The novel has two non-fictional antecedents, both from my hometown. The first was a devastating flood that occurred in 1963; it destroyed much of the property in its path and took five lives. The second is what happened to an outside artist named Ellis Ruley, who painted obsessively but could not sell his work during his lifetime. He died under mysterious circumstances and his work is now prized by collectors of American folk art. The way I developed the story and the characters was by starting with these real-life events and people and then weaving a network of fabrications until they became their own thing. The actual flood and the life and death of Ellis Ruley were merely springboards into the fiction.

DF: All of the characters in the Oh family undergo a dramatic life change by the end of the novel. How do you decide which characters will find themselves stronger and which characters will be a lost cause?

WL: I don’t believe in lost causes, necessarily; I think that even a despicable character like Kent Kelly, who dies without redemption, could have been redeemed had he believed what I believe: that love is stronger than hatred, that good can triumph over evil. To ask how I “decide” the fate of my characters is to assume that I’m in control like an omnipotent god or a puppeteer pulling strings. It just doesn’t happen that way for me. The story gradually reveals itself to me. I don’t really feel as if I am in control.

DF: What advice do you give to up-and-coming writers?

WL: Humble yourself to the challenge of revision and seek feedback from others. Also, give feedback to other writers. I participate in writers’ groups and that has always been part of my process.

DF: Can you tell us one random fact about yourself?

WL: I recently made a cameo appearance in the film version of my comic novella Wishin’ and Hopin’, which will be released later this year. I play a janitor—pretty funny because in real life I can’t fix a damn thing.

To learn more about Wally Lamb, check out his official website, like his Facebook page, or follow him on Twitter @WallyLambAuthor.

The Writer's Bone Interviews Archive

Upheaval and Innovation: Author Shawn Vestal On Writing and the Current State of Journalism

Shawn Vestal

By Daniel Ford

Perusing through The New York Times Book Review recently, I came across a book with a title that I loved instantly.

Godforsaken Idaho.

I don’t know why it hit me the way it did, but when things like that happen, you don’t question it and immediately email the writer to see if he or she is willing to sit down for an interview.

Author Shawn Vestal was more than willing and provided insight into his praised collection of short stories, his writing process, and the current state of journalism.

Daniel Ford: When did you start writing? Was it something that came to you naturally or was it developed over time?

Shawn Vestal: I always had an interest in language and reading, from a very early age, and my teachers often encouraged me and praised my writing. So I would imagine it was kind of twofold—I had an interest/aptitude, and then I developed it. I wrote my first poems and stories when I was in high school and college, but I sort of dinked around with that kind of writing while working as a journalist as a young adult. I didn’t work on it as hard as I could have.

DF: What is your writing process like? Do you outline? Listen to music?

SV: I just open the laptop and go. Usually, I’m sitting on the little couch in my office at home, but sometimes I’ll move around. I never listen to music while writing, and I try to write for a sustained period before ever dipping a toe into email or the Internet. More and more, I recognize the crucial importance of the time I spend away from the keyboard, thinking about what I’m working on, unconsciously preparing for the next burst of writing. Because my week is divided between journalism and fiction-writing, I usually have gaps of a few days between fiction writing, and in those gaps I try to think through problems or spend time in the mind of the characters. Often, I write quickly and for an appallingly short period of time –a three-hour bout at the keyboard is about as far as I can go, in terms of breaking fresh imaginative ground—and I often write less than that in a sitting, though I can edit and tinker for longer.

DF: As someone who was trained as a journalist and made a living at it for a couple of years, I have to ask what you think of the current state of journalism and why was it something you pursued when you first started out? Also, what’s the most entertaining story you ever worked on?

SV: I fell into journalism accidentally. I was an English major at the University of Idaho in the 1980s, and I dropped out, intending to earn money and return. Instead, I took a job at my hometown weekly newspaper and found that I really loved the work. I moved around the West to different papers, and have now settled at The Spokesman-Review in Spokane, Wash. , where I am a columnist. It’s a pretty great job. I feel very lucky to have it.

The current state of the business is, of course, struggling. I think that newspapers in particular have seen their means of earning money—and therefore paying for journalism—suffer, and we’re going through a time of all sorts of upheaval and innovation. It’s been bad news, so far at least, for the kind of deeper, investigative reporting at the community and state level. But I’m not sure what journalism will look like eventually. Those of us weaned on the old model frankly don’t have the eyes to imagine it. I think that the essence of journalism, and not the business of it, is what is crucial: reporting on the powerful, serving citizens, and holding government accountable. There is too little truly excellent journalism in the world, but that is not new. I think that the demise of old forms of media don’t at all mean that journalism will go away.

DF: How much of yourself—and the people you have daily interactions with—did you put into your main characters?

SV: I suppose I put only myself into my characters—it’s all I have, really. But I very rarely do it directly and I have never “fictionalized” a real person who I know—taken a real person or circumstance and made a story out of it. What happens is, in the course of invention, I draw upon my own experiences, and so I use bits and pieces of people and my past to patch things together.

DF: We’re big fans of the short story here at Writer’s Bone. What drew you to write short stories originally and why do you think this mode of storytelling is so compelling to readers?

SV: I loved Flannery O’Connor in high school, and Raymond Carver a short while after that. Both made me want to write stories myself. I think there’s something about the compressed impact a great story can have—such potency and such brevity—that I simply want to keep trying to write a great one.

DF: Your collection of short stories “Godforsaken Idaho” has garnered positive reviews since its release in April 2013. How did you go about compiling the stories you wanted to include?

SV: I looked at the stories I had published that I thought were the strongest, and then tried to consider how, or whether, they fit together. Several of my stories have Mormon elements in them, and that became a unifying thread. Ultimately, I organized the stories to move backward in time – from a future afterlife to a fictionalized story about the founder of the Mormon Church in the 1800s. The stories are loosely connected and organized. I want it to feel unified, but it stops well short of a strongly linked collection like Jesus Son or Olive Kittredge.

DF: Having never been to Idaho, what, if anything, do I need to know about the state before I dive into “Godforsaken Idaho?”

SV: For one thing, the Idaho of the book and the title is not the Idaho. It’s not my comment on the state; it’s meant to convey two elements of the book: a sense of existential isolation of many of the characters, and the surreal or extreme types of things that are included, whether it’s an afterlife or a haunting.

DF: When you finished “Godforsaken Idaho,” did you know you had something good right away and how did you go about getting it published?

SV: I never know if I have anything good. I still wish I could revise some things in the stories. The book was published by the more or less traditional route. I got an agent, who submitted the book to publishers, and she persuaded one of them to bite.

DF: What’s next for you following the success of “Godforsaken Idaho?”

SV: I’m trying to write a novel.

DF: What advice would you give to up-and-coming writers?

SV: A lot of very mundane things. Read and write a lot. Work hard. Do not wait around for inspiration—inspiration comes more often when you’re working than when you’re waiting. If you find yourself stuck or blocked, allow yourself to write lines of nonsense, to invent ridiculous scenarios, to write something very, very bad. Lower your standards to get yourself moving, and then raise them again in editing and revision. Find writers you can share your work with and share honest critiques with.

DF: Can you tell us one random fact about yourself?

SV: I stopped having anxiety dreams about showing up unprepared on the final day of class as a student, and started having anxiety dreams about showing up unprepared for the first day of class as the instructor.

To learn more about Shawn Vestal, visit his official website, like his Facebook page, or follow him on Twitter @vestal13.

The Writer's Bone Interviews Archive

Writing Testosterone: 8 Questions With Screenwriter William C. Martell

William C. Martell

By Sean Tuohy

A working screenwriter is as versatile as a well-trained Green Beret. They have to jump in to the middle of hazardous production, fight elements like bratty actors and loud producers, and punch up new pages on the fly while the whole production team waits for them.

William C. Martell is one of those screenwriters and has been producing scripts for more than 20 years. He's earned a solid Hollywood career by penning action thrillers, horror flicks, and noir films. Martell also give newbies plenty of screenwriting tips and advice on his blog "Script Secrets" and in his book Secrets of Action Screenwriting.

I recently talked with Martell about his career, how screenwriting has changed since he has entered the business, and what is next for the script guru.

Sean Tuohy: When did you know you wanted to become a writer? Did you always know you wanted to be a screenwriter?

William C. Martell: When I was a kid and I told all kinds of crazy stories and got punished for lying...so I had to find some way to get paid instead of punished. As a kid, I did everything from little plays in my backyard to making my own comic books and giving them to friends. I loved movies, but had no idea that someone wrote them, and for sure I couldn’t do something like that in my home town. My grandfather’s business was water wells and farm irrigation, so I figured I’d end up digging ditches for a living (literally). My father painted and installed signs, so during summers I’d often have to help carry heavy signs up ladders so they could be bolted onto the fronts of buildings. That was the other job I might have ended up doing, while making short stories, comic books, and little plays my hobby.

I loved movies, so I got a job at the local movie theater at 15 and a half years old and got to see movies for free (including R-rated movies). Around this time, I was also making short films with an 8mm camera and later a Super 8mm camera. Somewhere in there I discovered this business that sold actual screenplays from movies and television shows and ordered some and thought “I could do this!” Of course, I was hundreds of miles from Hollywood, so I just continued making short films (and a Super 8mm feature, which was a bad idea at the time). My first script sale was to a local production company that was making low budget kung fu movies. A decade of working in a warehouse later, I sold a script to a company on the Paramount lot.

ST: You have written everything from techo-thrillers to noir. Do you find it challenging to switch from genre to genre? 

WCM: I write testosterone. My home genre would probably be Hitchcock-style thrillers (which is why I have the first of three books on screenplays and Hitchcock out on Amazon), but my Super 8mm feature was a private eye movie. I then did that kung fu movie (and wrote a kung fu sci fi script that was supposed to be shot next, but that didn’t happen). The script I sold to Paramount was a noir script called "Courting Death." That got me to Hollywood, where a second noir script, "Treacherous," sold and was made, followed by "Implicated" (more noir!) and then a sci fi kung fu movie! Cable networks like USA, HBO, and Showtime began making their own films and that sci fi kung fu script was an HBO World Premiere Movie. The techno- thrillers came from trying to sell another script to that HBO producer. I’d read an article in Variety about U.S. Navy cooperation on films—where the Navy allows you to shoot on Aircraft Carriers and film SEAL Teams doing exercises for free—so I wrote a script targeting cooperation. The producer realized he could basically do "Hunt for Red October" on an HBO budget, and I made a sale. I continued writing techno- thrillers for a while. I also wrote action films, which led to all kinds of studio meetings on scripts that never managed to get made (on the average, for every 10 scripts they buy, they only make one). That led to writing my book Secrets of Action Screenwriting. I have a spy script that almost got made *ages* ago, kind of a kid Indiana Jones script that was optioned by a Hollywood company when I was still living in my home town, and all kinds of other “testosterone” scripts.

ST: What films influenced you early on?

WCM:  I write the kind of movies I’ve paid to see, so everything from Bogart films to Hitchcock films (especially "Rear Window," North by Northwest," "Psycho," and "Notorious") to "Chinatown" to "Point Blank" to James Bond movies to "Dirty Harry" to "Abbott & Costello Meet Frankenstein" to "Mysterious Island." As a kid, I’d watch horror movies and science fiction films and Sherlock Holmes movies that played on Saturday afternoons on television. And I read a ton of books (still do) and sometimes read the book before the movie or the movie pointed me to the book (for example, "Point Blank" sent me to Richard Stark, "Double Indemnity" sent me to James M. Cain, "Rear Window" sent me to Cornell Woolrich).

ST: Do you have any scripts that are stuck in "development hell?"

WCM: A stack of them! As I said, usually for every 10 you sell (or are hired to write) only one gets made. In 2007, I had two films come out the same day—one with Steven Segal, one without—and since then everything has either stalled or died along the way. A couple of years ago, I wrote the remake of a hit 1980s horror flick for a big name producer, but it hasn't been made. I wrote a big action script that takes place in Finland, a funny creature feature about giant killer frogs, a horror script about an elevator that craves blood, and a whole bunch of other scripts for producers where I got paid but the film never got made. Some of these went as far as to have posters designed before something happened and they ended up on the shelf. You get used to this after a while. "Courting Death" would pop up in Variety and Hollywood Reporter every few years when they hired another director or star and then it would fall apart again. David Fincher was the director on that one for a couple of months. The problem becomes scheduling, getting all of the people you need to get the movie off the ground in the right combination at the right time. On a recent project, we needed a star and a director that wanted to work with that star and we would either have one or the other. Star on board, but no director. Director on board, but no star. It went back and forth like that for almost two years before they just moved on to another project. It’s a miracle if any script gets made in Hollywood.

The “development hell” part comes when some star drops out of a project and the producer thinks that they need to completely change the script before they send it to the next star so that it’s “fresh.” They decide maybe your western should take place on Mars and you have to do the Martian rewrite, which, of course, doesn’t work. So the producer thinks, "Maybe if the Martians were really Nazis who fled to the angry red planet after World War II?" And you write that version and it doesn’t work. And then they “replace you” aka they fire you) and bring in some other writer to try the Nazi Martian western version, and when that doesn’t work the producer thinks maybe it can take place in Iceland, because he just vacationed there and it was really cool. So that new writer does an Iceland Martian Nazi western script...and on and on into the night. The strange part is that sometimes they make one of these crapfests and your name is still on it, but it doesn’t resemble anything you wrote. Oh, and it sucks (obviously).

One of the reasons I started writing articles and books on writing is that I was in control of those things. My column for Script Magazine (which ran for 20 years) was never going to sit on a shelf because the magazine was going to hit newsstands and be mailed to subscribers. If I wrote it, it went to print. My website, www.scriptsecrets.net, has a free screenwriting article every day and my blog, which are things that I can write and instantly people can read them. None of the frustration of writing a bunch of scripts that sell or assignments for pay, and having the projects get shelved when a star backs out to take a job with Clint Eastwood (that happened).

The Blue Book expansion thing is folding those 20 years of columns for Script Magazine into some old booklets I wrote in 2002 and turning them into full-sized books, which are instantly published on Amazon Kindle and people are reading them the next day. After a big project I’d been working on got put on hold by the producer at the beginning of this year, I wrote a couple of short stories and they were on sale at Amazon in 12 hours! The frustration of being a screenwriter is depending on a bunch of other people in order to get your story to the audience. For every movie you see listed on IMDB there are nine other scripts that you do a lot of work on, but no one will ever see them.

ST: What is your writing processing? Do you have any pre- or post-writing rituals?

WCM:  My main writing ritual is to sacrifice a movie producer with a special scimitar and then...oh, wait...you mean the stuff that’s not crazy psycho stuff?

Because I was writing scripts with a 40 hour a week day job, I tried to find the best method to get things done writing a limited time every day. That ended up being outlining the script and breaking it into manageable pieces that I could work on every day before work. I would basically do a bullet point outline listing the scenes of my script, and work that outline until it made sense and there was no fat. Then I’d write two or three scenes a week, at least one good page a day, and that added up to finished scripts.

I still do that now, just with more pages per day because I don’t have that pesky day job. By the way, this helps when I have an assignment with a deadline, because I know if I write "X" number of pages a day I’ll end up with a completed script by the deadline. I like to finish two or more days earlier to do a quick rewrite to fix things before sending it to the producer. I have a home office that almost never gets used because I bicycle from coffee shop to coffee shop in Los Angeles (and often parks), and try to write five pages a day. The cycling gets my blood flowing and gives me time to think. My job is sitting on my butt, so I before bicycling I was looking like Jabba the Hutt. Coffee shops are less distractions than working at home for me because there’s nothing else I can do there. I have headphones and listen to movie music from whatever kind of script I’m working on, and when I look up from the laptop screen I have a window on the world, people around me who might spark some idea. Plus, coffee is close by at all times. I switch up my locations often, so that when I look up at my window on the world it’s interesting.

ST: How has the screenwriting world changed since you first entered?

WCM:  Many different ways. Those HBO movies I used to write? Don’t exist anymore. I had a friend who made horror films "for" Blockbuster. They paid him to make six films a year as Blockbuster Exclusives because horror has loyal fans and exclusive movies would bring them into the stores. Blockbuster isn’t around anymore. If Hollywood stopped making some kind of film to focus on superhero movies or whatever, there were other places that would make those movies. Now many of those places are gone. So we have great television shows now on cable networks, but no movies. So it’s more difficult to get things made.

Because studios are focusing more on “branded” entertainment (stuff that is already insanely popular in some other medium) the market for original scripts is tough. Original scripts are basically job applications for some writing assignment working on those scripts in development hell, trying to break it out into production.

Screenplays themselves have gone through an evolution. About 15 years ago these people began popping up on message boards who thought screenwriting should be more than a document designed to make a film. It should be "literature." Now that some of those people are in the biz, screenplays have become “great reads” that sometimes may not make very good films. Though you want a script that is a “good read” you also want it to work as that blueprint for the film. This is a weird trend, and part of it is due to “the business of development” that sprang up. If most scripts are never going to be movies, let’s just not focus on that movie thing! We’ve ended up with these little factories that develop scripts that are separate from the business of making films.  Producers just want you to work for free on some script that’s probably never going to be made instead of changing their methods because studios are cutting back. The problem as a writer is we don’t know what projects will happen and which will not. So far, I’ve managed to get paid on every project, but that’s because I turn down unpaid gigs. Because the business continues to evolve, I suspect the “unpaid work” will shift back to the old model where there was less pointless “busywork” and scripts are focused on becoming films.

The great thing happening in screenwriting? When I turned from making my own films to writing scripts because I could no longer afford film and processing, I basically became Hollywood’s bitch. I work for "The Man." But now there are people making films on their iPhones! Now you can make your own film, and that’s a big shift in how the business works. Instead of working for free for some producer who is never going to make our film, we can make a film ourselves. We can still work for "The Man and" sell screenplays or land assignments, but if we get frustrated with the system we can just go out and do it ourselves. That gives us power and that power can help when we are selling scripts and getting paid gigs. Hollywood is not the only game in town, and we can go make "Paranormal Activity" and make them pay a lot more later. And that may be one of the things that has lead to an increase in spec sales. Add to that, as Hollywood focuses on big tentpoles, there are foreign companies like Europa who have moved in to make genre films like "Three Days to Kill," "Brick Mansions," and "Lucy." New script buyers!

ST: What advice would you give to an up and coming screenwriter?

WCM: Write! Read screenplays to get a feel what they are supposed to read like, then just keep writing screenplays. I’m always amazed when someone on a message board says they are going to quit because they have written four scripts and Steven Spielberg hasn’t phoned yet. WTF? A survey by the WGA a while back showed that the average writer wrote (and rewrote until they were great) nine full length screenplays before they ever made a cent! You either love writing, or you’re in the wrong business! Writers write.

Other things: grab a crew position on a film set. Since people are making films all over the place now with Kickstarter campaigns and doing credit card movies, find some low budget folks in your area making a movie and work on it. Once you see how films are really made, it changes the way you write screenplays. You see what works and what doesn’t and understand the practical needs of production. Also, don’t limit yourself to screenplays. Writers write! So write short stories and novels and articles and whatever else you can. It’s like working out, you use different muscle combinations and that helps you overall. Someone who wants to be an Olympic 400 meter hurdle runner, you don’t only practice by running the 400 meter hurdles, you do all kinds of stuff. Oh, and find some film related job you can do. Learn editing or sound or some other set job. Those are great ways to earn a living and make contacts.

ST: Can you tell us one random fact about yourself?

WCM:  I was born in the same hospital as Tom Hanks.

To learn more about William C. Martell, check out his official website or follow him on Twitter  @wcmartell.

The Writer's Bone Interviews Archive